Don't understand Idaho's high taxes (2014, income tax, to live)

[pnwguy2]

Originally Posted by banjomike

Take it to the bank that any vice that isn't controlled by the state will get a pile of taxes heaped on it, and will always get more whenever the state needs some more easy money.

Idaho once regulated everything with alcohol in it much more than now. The state government learned that privatization pays much better than regulation.
Don't count on our state liquor stores forever. Sooner or later, our state government will overcome their need to decide what's best of us themselves when they want more tax money, and they'll privatize our liquor sales.
The same thing will happen with marijuana after other states start showing the advantages of legalizing and taxing it.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see bordellos becoming a county option in the future again, either. Prostitution was a legal county option of a way to collect county taxes here until ca. 1969, when a passing morality fad swept through our Legislature. (I wasn't here when the laws changed, so I'm unsure of the exact year.)

Throughout our years as a Territory, and then as a State, Idaho had no more problems with legal prostitution than any of the other western states had, except for Utah. In fact, many of our largest cities pushed legalized prostitution as a way of lessening their county tax burden. Some of the old bordellos were in town, some outside, within the county limits. Some cities taxed the bordellos additionally, some didn't.

Since very single member of our Legislature wears a deep No New Tax brand on their forehead, about the only thing they can get away with are the sin taxes. No one complains about sin taxes.
That's why Idaho offers a hundred different lotteries, has allowed first beer and then wine to be sold on Sundays, why formerly dry counties are now becoming wet, and why we are having horse racing problems, and why cigarettes don't cost a buck a pack any more. If casino gambling wasn't so complicated, Idaho would have casinos that are the real deal. That's about the only bandwagon that wasn't completely jumped on, even though Idaho hitched a ride on the side rail of the wagon.

Washington got it's act together- they've made almost everything legal, and that hauls in a lot more tax money than regulation ever did. It's only a matter of time before Idaho comes around to the same realization.

I wouldn't be so sure that Idaho is going to privatize liquor anytime soon. The conservative nature of state government there goes against government control, but not when vices are involved. Same with Utah. Even Oregon, (mostly liberal, atleast in the Portland/Eugene region is struggling with this.

And again, privatization in WA has meant 25% increases in total cost, due to additional taxes added on. Yes, the store price has dropped, but the taxes kill any of that discount. As I mentioned earlier, these taxes are supposed to gradually lessen, but they have not in 3 years of privatization.

[revelated]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Well, you describe Washington State. No income, but high sales tax. If you are not working, then it is not a positive.

This makes no sense. If you're not working, you're broke. There is no taxation to speak of. By the time you get to tax filing time, you're getting 100% of that back because you have no income TO take.

If you are working, it's significantly better not to have income tax, because your take home is higher. Sales tax is controlled. You choose to buy things that have tax associated, and you can choose to buy less of said things - or via alternate means.

Every example you provided later (Which I didn't quote) are "sin taxed" - and frankly, I feel the taxes on those things are way too low.

The other thing is, state sales tax is Federal deductible anyway. Regardless of paying it throughout the year, you're credited it back come tax time - assuming you know what you're doing when you file taxes.

Compare that to California, where you can deduct state sales tax but it doesn't matter because you're still on the hook for state income tax at a ridiculous rate. Despite it being based on after-calculation Federal income, it's still too much. If you made $60k/year at a job in California, your equivalent take-home is roughly half of that amount. That's a joke. (This assumes a single individual with no children, mind you)

[pnwguy2]

Hold on, revelated. If you are not working you are not necessarily broke! I happen to be fortunate enough to retire early with moderate wealth. OK, maybe I am not the norm, but so be it. My point is, I gain nothing from lack of income tax if I am not working.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Hold on, revelated. If you are not working you are not necessarily broke! I happen to be fortunate enough to retire early with moderate wealth. OK, maybe I am not the norm, but so be it. My point is, I gain nothing from lack of income tax if I am not working.

Are you enjoying your early retirement less or more than you thought you would? It seems like you've kept up with the tax laws and at least alcohol costs in some states.

I'll ask f5 about your earlier post including UT and state laws.

MSR

[pnwguy2]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Are you enjoying your early retirement less or more than you thought you would? It seems like you've kept up with the tax laws and at least alcohol costs in some states.

I'll ask f5 about your earlier post including UT and state laws.

MSR

I'm still deciding on that question, but thanks for asking. I do follow tax laws and have found this liquor change in WA to be fascinating and do wonder if it will become a trend.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

I'm still deciding on that question, but thanks for asking. I do follow tax laws and have found this liquor change in WA to be fascinating and do wonder if it will become a trend.

It's wise to know tax laws. I am not certain what time frame a state would normalize increased costs so consumers are getting cheaper alcohol. I think you said it had been three years, if I'm not confused. How long did you originally think? Does the fact pot can be purchased legally in WA (and soon Ore) a factor about alcohol costs, in your opinion?

Retirement or even extended time off can be both good in some ways, but difficult in others. I have thoughts about that but that isn't what the thread is about.

I need to finish my question to f5. I forgot to ask about privatization in UT, there were too many other things to address.

MSR

[welderman84]

Wa is run by idiot liberals and it seems like they got upset that the people voted to privatize liquor stores by tacking on a crazy tax to it. They no longer have to pay to operate state liq stores, overpay some worthless (most likely union) clerk etc, so less operating costs yet higher taxes, big scam.

Im originally from Fl where liq stores have been privately owned businesses as long as I can remember and its way cheaper, and most of fl (aside from south florida which should be a country of its own, United Nation of Immigrants) is not idiot liberals like Wa.

I dont even see why people would oppose privatizing it, it enables anyone to open up a store like any other business

Also, just because weed is legal in WA doesnt mean everyone is buying it in stores and paying taxes, it doesnt need to be in a state tax tagged package or anything.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by welderman84

Wa is run by idiot liberals and it seems like they got upset that the people voted to privatize liquor stores by tacking on a crazy tax to it. They no longer have to pay to operate state liq stores, overpay some worthless (most likely union) clerk etc, so less operating costs yet higher taxes, big scam.

Im originally from Fl where liq stores have been privately owned businesses as long as I can remember and its way cheaper, and most of fl (aside from south florida which should be a country of its own, United Nation of Immigrants) is not idiot liberals like Wa.

I dont even see why people would oppose privatizing it, it enables anyone to open up a store like any other business

Also, just because weed is legal in WA doesnt mean everyone is buying it in stores and paying taxes, it doesnt need to be in a state tax tagged package or anything.

welderman84,

I agree with your last statement. I probably was not clear enough in what I attempted to ask; I'll try again.

WA appears to not have decreased taxes on alcohol in the three years originally thought. My question for pnwguy2 was from his perspective, since MJ is legal in WA are the increased sales of weed competing with the private alcohol sales? That could be one reason taxes haven't decreased as much as expeccted. I didn't know pot wasn't taxed in WA. That makes me wonder even more about my question of competition in the marketplace. I was thinking about Colorado data and trying to understand the potential competing market factors in WA better, as a possible reason alcohol is still being taxed at a higher than expected rate.

Idaho needs to watch the liquor markets in surrounding states partly not to make the same mistakes and in other businesses, such as conferences/business meetings.

MSR

[welderman84]

MJ is taxed, but what I meant was not many people actually buy it in stores, people are just doing what they have alwags been doing (getting it from their "guy" but no longer worried about a possesion charge on the drive home)

Imo wa taxes liq way too high as a way to "get back" at the people for voting against their socialist plan. Idaho could easily privatize it and charge a reasonable tax on it, like florida does. Last time I went down to fl, everything was 25-40% less AFTER tax. For example a 750ml bottle of fireball is like 25 bucks here after tax, in florida it was like 17.

Anyways, comparing anything to wa will make your head spin, i mean a cashier in seattle makes $15hr now, no reason to go to school! Im sure plenty of people in idaho would be falling over themselves to make that.

[pnwguy2]

well, calling WA socialist is a bit over the top. But I understand your thinking.

No income tax is not socialist. However, they do get you everywhere else, granted.

The liquor thing is minimal as in the actual prices HAVE come down, but the taxes have quadrupled! Yeah, that is borderline socialist. But we need to be careful with terms here. I agree, the State needed to make up some revenue with a promise of lowering the taxes over the years. I wonder who is keeping them accountable for that promise?