Anyone have any thoughts on the proposed smelter? (Coeur d'Alene, Sandpoint: construction, wages)

[Smokinlib1]

So here is what we were informed of at the last meeting I attended in Newport. Golden BC, where HiTest is located begged them to put the smelter there but because the Canadian government wouldn't pony up tax breaks or give them cheap electricity they looked to the US. Addy, WA wants the plant but they don't have enough electric to service the plant. So Newport was chosen because it is a depressed area, has cheap electric and the county commissioners and the state would give them free land and tax breaks. Out of the 200+ jobs this smelter will supposedly create only about 30-40 will employ local residents, the rest will be transfers from British Columbia. Bonner county is complicit in this as the land that the plant would be located on is "landlocked" and the only way to get to it is via Idaho. Bonner county gave/sold/traded access via Idaho state land to the plant located in Washington.

800 rail cars a year loaded with quartz, 600 more loaded with coal to fire the smelter and trucks running 24/7 down Hwy 41 to a road, yet to be determined in Bonner County, to service the smelter. The plant will be located right behind the landfill off Hwy 41. The plant will crush the quartz into high grade silica sand and then smelt it to make silicon metal. It will still need to be refined further to be used for solar panels. Go to Home Depot and read the warnings on the bags of silica sand they sell. This is dangerous stuff. So they look for a "depressed" area to locate their smelter and try to trick people with supposed jobs figuring the people won't care that their wells will be pumped dry, their air polluted with microscopic glass shards that cause silicosis, coal burning 24/7 and the dark nights ruined by huge lights.

Cnynrat, ask yourself a question. Why do some of the Bonner County commissioners and the Pend Oreille county commissioners need to hide the deals they made with HiTest if this is such a simple and straight forward deal? I've been to the meetings, listened to experts and county commissioners, listened to folks who have similar smelters in their areas and from what I've heard this isn't going to be some clean. green plant like HiTest would have you believe.

[Angry-Koala]

Originally Posted by Cavalry_Chief

... I am all for Free Markets and small government. However, I draw a line when it comes to potential hazards and risk to health. ...

Originally Posted by kttam186290

So you're a free-market, capitalist, right-wing Republican except when it personally effects you? ...

It's odd how it works that way.

[Angry-Koala]

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

So they look for a "depressed" area to locate their smelter and try to trick people with supposed jobs figuring the people won't care that their wells will be pumped dry, their air polluted with microscopic glass shards that cause silicosis, coal burning 24/7 and the dark nights ruined by huge lights

It's tough when jobs are scarce and it's easy to understand why people want companies like that to come in. Folks need to earn a living somehow. A few people will make money for a for a few years, but the expenses will be high and go on for years and years, long after HiTest has left the area.

[Cnynrat]

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

Bonner county is complicit in this as the land that the plant would be located on is "landlocked" and the only way to get to it is via Idaho. Bonner county gave/sold/traded access via Idaho state land to the plant located in Washington.

Did that happen before or after the land was sold to HiTest? Remember, the long term plan for that property had been to build a water treatment plant there. I'm sure that would have needed road access as well.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

800 rail cars a year loaded with quartz

In other words, they are bringing in 800 rail cars a year loaded with sand. That's 15 cars a week, or one small/short train. I'm quite sure they can find a way to transport such a small amount of sand safely.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

The plant will be located right behind the landfill off Hwy 41.

I am not familiar with the specific area, but I have to say that behind a landfill seems like an appropriate location for this sort of thing.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

The plant will crush the quartz into high grade silica sand and then smelt it to make silicon metal. It will still need to be refined further to be used for solar panels. Go to Home Depot and read the warnings on the bags of silica sand they sell. This is dangerous stuff.

Sand is dangerous? Yeah, if you throw it around and breath the dust 8 hours a day I suppose. OTOH, I strongly suspect that a) The primary risk here will be borne by those who work inside the plant and b) The risk to the surrounding area can be mitigated with various containment and air filtration methods.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

So they look for a "depressed" area to locate their smelter and try to trick people with supposed jobs figuring the people won't care that their wells will be pumped dry, their air polluted with microscopic glass shards that cause silicosis, coal burning 24/7 and the dark nights ruined by huge lights.

More fear, uncertainty and doubt. Show me the facts that indicate these outcomes are a foregone conclusion.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

Why do some of the Bonner County commissioners and the Pend Oreille county commissioners need to hide the deals they made with HiTest if this is such a simple and straight forward deal?

I've seen no evidence anyone on either side of the border is hiding anything. The fact that they had this community meeting seems to run counter to the idea they are hiding anything.

Originally Posted by Smokinlib1

I've been to the meetings, listened to experts and county commissioners, listened to folks who have similar smelters in their areas and from what I've heard this isn't going to be some clean. green plant like HiTest would have you believe.

What leads you to believe the EPA and the WA Department of Ecology will allow the plant be operated in a manner that causes significant harm to the environment? As I said earlier, accidents can happen, but in this day and age companies are subject to requirements of the Clean Air and Water acts, and can not just pollute the environment willy-nilly.

Look, I realize people who live in the immediate area will have a strong reaction to this plan and will have legitimate concerns. The fact is however that the original plan for a water treatment facility would have been no picnic either - my experience is they usually stink pretty badly. In any case, I think the right path forward is to work with the appropriate authorities to ensure all the right safeguards are put in place to mitigate the impact. Just to pick one easy example from your list of concerns, ambient nighttime lighting can easily be controlled to mitigate bleed into the sky and surrounding areas. Sure, it's still going to be visible from an adjacent property, but the impact on someone a half a mile away can be made negligible.

Throwing around forecasts of doom that are just someone's supposition and have no factual basis isn't really productive IMO.

Dave

[Cnynrat]

Originally Posted by Angry-Koala

It's tough when jobs are scarce and it's easy to understand why people want companies like that to come in. Folks need to earn a living somehow. A few people will make money for a for a few years, but the expenses will be high and go on for years and years, long after HiTest has left the area.

Why and when do you think they will leave the area? The raw materials for this operation are abundant, and the demand for the product is only growing. I see no reason to think they will leave in the foreseeable future.

Why do you think expenses will be high? Don't you think the WA Dept of Ecology and the EPA will ensure they operate in a manner that complies with the Clean Air and Water acts?

Dave

[Craziaskowboi]

He who smelt it, dealt it.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Here is an article dealing with the process of silicon smelting and refinement.

How silicon is made - material, making, history, used, processing, components, composition, structure, product

Given the size of the plant and the truck/rail traffic projected per Smokinlibs post, it seems as if it would be inline with, or perhaps considerably smaller in impact, to a small lumber processing mill. Not to mention offer some good paying jobs and contribute to our tax base. I need to do more research, but my gut feeling is that FUD (fear, uncertainty and despair), along with a great deal of misinformation, is being presented to generate opposition to the project. Basically they are melting and casting what is essentially sand or gravel. The process isn't a lot different than glass production and probably less of an impact that glass recycling.

This seems to be the type of furnace they will be using

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKgQqqtjJjE

Here is one that appears to be a silicon smelting in India (hence few of the safety or environmental controls one in the US would have to adhere to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFIPWqXo2lc

Another electric arc furnace in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FnUYVgMaP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh2z-g7GJxE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eypAfmrRpB0

I'm not sure if this is what is being done, or if this is further along in the production process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYxTmxsd6Ck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ3Im4gythk


There is a plant in Mississippi that is apparently similar in size (Mississippi Silicon). Here is a vid of their facility.

https://vimeo.com/167912859

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

It's as shame our local media makes so little effort to present facts and does so much to inflame emotions. Some pictures of similar plants would be nice. A comparison to existing businesses perhaps? Tax and employment benefits? No, let's just spread the words of the fearmongers instead of doing some actual reporting.

[volosong]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

It's as shame our local media makes so little effort to present facts and does so much to inflame emotions...

I don't know what daily or weekly periodicals are published north of the Rathdrum Prairie, but perhaps a "Letter to the Editor" would be appropriate in bringing pressure to those who know to reveal some details.

[volosong]

There was a hearing/presentation Wednesday night, as reported in today's CdA Press; with a short article, but too long to quote here. Headline:

Originally Posted by Judd Wilson, Hagadone News Network

Hundreds Flock to Newport Smelter Presentation

A brief internet search provided a link to a more extensive article in the Bonner County Daily Bee, with some pictures.

Bonner County Daily Bee - Local News, Hundreds flock to WA smelter presentation

One sentence popped out:

May said that while the plant would emit thousands of tons of carbon dioxide, gaseous emissions from the smelter plant would contain zero heavy metals.

I don't like hearing that! "May" is in reference to Jim May, HiTest Chief Operation Officer.

Good turnout. At the least, HiTest know that they are being watched closely, very closely.