Paradise lost or at least really changing? (McCall, New Meadows: for sale, brokers)

[mrunik]

One of the most important reasons I want to move to Idaho is for the great hunting and fishing. Seems like this will be changing over time now?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/u...-business.html

[mistyriver]

At least it’s not public land.
It’s crazy to me that people have pushed for the sale of public lands to private entities. Don’t people understand they will be shut out of the areas they’ve had their elk camps on for generations and trails they’ve snowmobiled on all of their lives?

When we bought our place it included a pond that generations of dads had brought their kids fishing. The nearest neighbors (only there a couple of years ahead of us) would chase people out even though it wasn’t theirs.
We welcomed people. Part of the pleasure of being an Idahoan is cherishing those old traditions even though we aren’t natives ourselves. I’d not want to stand in the way of a dad teaching his kid to fish where his dad taught him.

[nm9stheham]

There is a lot of public land in that region that is pretty useless (or rarely used) for recreation and I would not be opposed to seeing some of it go up for sale. More people in the world every day.... they gotta live somewhere. Think about it: the 'loss' of the Treasure Valley would be softened, and options opened up for those valuing a more open land life, if some new areas were opened up for settlement/development. We just don't think in terms of new settlement development anymore since homesteading got put on hold some decades ago.



As for the private ownership being a growing issue.... that NYT article references 65,000 sq miles in the hands of 100 landowners..... that is a whopping 2.2% of the total continental US land area LOL. And I'll bet most of that is resource land for timer and drilling. So a big issue? I doubt it.



These issues are mostly access issues, and IMHO are more localized than that article would lead one to believe. The Federal Gov't agencies have been just as difficult in many land access controversies, and control a LOT more of the land in this particular region and have closed off a TON more land for certain types of recreation access in the past few decades.

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by mrunik

One of the most important reasons I want to move to Idaho is for the great hunting and fishing. Seems like this will be changing over time now?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/u...-business.html

Yes, and it's changed a lot from when I was young.

Hunting and fishing still abound here, but both have changed. Some of the changes have come from nature, and others from man.

The rainbow trout, for example, was not a native fish here and was introduced in lakes and streams all over the state for many years. But over the past 15 years or more, the Idaho Fish and Game Dept. has been trying to eradicate the rainbow from many of the best native spawning waters because the rainbow is a predator on our natives and has driven some close to extinction. The cutthroat trout is native, and is one that was very threatened, and there are several others.

The native trout are more beneficial to our ecology than the rainbows because they are food sources in waters the rainbow won't inhabit, and in our lakes, the rainbows have eliminated entire populations of the cuts.

So there are periodic times when there's no limit on rainbows, but the cuts are all catch and release. These no limit periods come and go and are on limited streams, so it's always necessary to check with the Fish & Game to learn where the rainbows can be fished on any given year.
The F&G is doing this as a better alternative to poisoning them, as the poison kills everything in a stream, and it was discovered the rainbow is almost always the first trout to return.

The cutthroat is a good game fish, though less agressive, and they grow to about the same size. The brown trout were also introduced, but they don't prey on the natives, so they're caught with normal limits.

The limits change from year to year, so it's always good to have a copy of the F&G seasonal regulations and limits.

There are more bass in waters around the state than there once were, and their waters are warming, so they're growing bigger than in the past and more plentiful.

Idaho has some other game fish species as well; two are unique and is found only in Bear Lake; the Bonneville Cisco and the Bonneville Whitefish. They're small fish and are cooked like sardines (but are a much lighter and tastier fish).
They can only be caught in mid-winter for the limited time they come to the surface and can be caught by dipnetting.

Bear Lake also has trophy sized trout. The lake freezes over about 7 of every 10 years, and that's why the Cisco rise. Normally, they inhabit the bottom where they can't be caught.

The big game has changed too. Our deer's ranges are now shifting and changing due to the climate change, and they are wintering in different places than they once did, usually lower down and closer to civilization than in the past, and are gathering in smaller areas in greater numbers than they once did. The areas are the ones that either have the best feed or the most safety.

Elk are also steadily moving downhill more, and more often. There was a long drought here, and drought hits hardest in high elevations at the treeline, the area most elk favor. Fires decreased their traditional habitat as well. They are also moving around a lot more than they once did.o

The re-introduction of the wolf in Yellowstone has made our elk herds typically younger, more fit, and warier than they once were, and when they migrate, they move in much bigger herds.

So for a hunter, the elk aren't nearly as easy to hunt as they once were, but they're a lot better to eat, too.

Moose are also moving around, and inhabiting new range. Since moose don't get much predation from bears or mtn. lions, they seem to be taking over some of the bottomlands that the elk once claimed.

The bears are also moving downhill. They are steadily losing the whitebark pine, which grows only at high altitudes and it's pinecones are the major source of fall feed for the grizzly, who will stake a claim on a stand and gorge until it's time to den. The cones are fat-rich, easy fodder, and it's like junk food for them.

But now, the grizzly is staying out longer, and comes out of the den skinnier and earlier than before. They are still very rare to encounter because they avoid humans naturally, but encounters are now less rare than they once were. Their numbers have also increased due to the wolves, as they follow the packs and can drive a small pack off a kill.

Black bears are more common, but they're behaving like the griz. So are our lions. They're moving closer to humanity now.

Other species, such as our mountain sheep are now threatened and are hunted on a very limited basis.

The Fish & Game is now patrolling, inspecting, and enforcing the game laws much more strictly than when I was a kid. They are especially tough on poachers; poach a deer or an elk and it can cost you $7,000 or more, and you'll lose your hunting privileges for up to 10 years. Poach a bunch, and you can go to jail and never be able to hunt again after you get out.

Our game is still plentiful in comparison to other states, but only because Idaho is very active in it's protection and care. Landowners can benefit from this in many ways; there's a state agency that will help pay the costs of a watering tank if accommodations are made for the local little critters to drink from it.

That's just an example. Another is they will pay for part of the fencing materials if the wire is flagged with plastic tags, which keep the deer from getting caught by the wire. There are others.

[mrunik]

I gotta tell ya banjomike, you seem to know more about where you live than anyone I've ever known!
Glad your on this forum!

[Alaskamom68]

If you can afford a higher cost of living and love fishing and hunting might I suggest Alaska? We moved from North Idaho to Alaska and if that's what you're looking to do Alaska is the best place for hunting, fishing, hiking, foraging. We also have great places for ATV's and Snowmobiling ( but Alaskans call them Snow Machines) There is a road kill program if you want more Moose in your freezer that you can hunt ( occasionally and depending on where you live the game meat could be something else.)


In addition to the usual ways of fishing here in Alaska, there is also dip netting (residents only) and combat fishing when the salmon are running. We have more waterways to fish than any other state. ( so always have your fishing gear with you LOL ) Oh and I have to mention the incredible halbit fishing

[FutureNorthender]

Thanks, BanjoMike for another informative and interesting read. You should write a series of books, Everything I Know About Idaho: History, Wildlife, Geology, etc. I know I’d buy it.

[banjomike]

One thing I admire about Idaho is the folks here have been very wildlife preservation oriented for a long time.

Our legislators have done a good job in creating ways our wilderness can be used that are beneficial for both our wildlife and our sportsmen- the hunters, fishers, and those who want to hike, trail ride or other activities where the people just observe the wildlife.

The Fish & Game Dept. always walks a fine line between what's good for the sportsmen and what's good for the critters. Overall, it's good for our tourism probably the most of all.

There's a big trend going on right now with tourism; folks are choosing places like Idaho for vacations where they can camp and explore the wild areas of the U.S. Adventure vacations. I'm glad we have a lot here that's still wild and natural for them to come and enjoy.

I know I still love it when on a cruise I'll see a huge herd of elk on the move, or a herd of antelope come clipping along from over a hill and zip by at warp speed.
Our antelope are the fastest critters on the continent and some of the oldest. The reason they're so fast is they were once chased by ice age wolves and cats. Their predators all went extinct, but the antelope never lost their speed. And they're still plentiful here, just because they still have enough of the wilderness to live in.

The same is true with our mountain caribou and a lot of our predatory birds. They all have enough country left wild to survive in well.

Things are changing due to climate change here, but at least the creatures that are able to adapt to that stand a good chance of survival, and I'm sure some will prosper more than they did before.

[snowave]

The Wilks Bros. were mentioned to us when buying our property in New Meadows a month ago. They own the land behind our house, and don't allow access onto what was once state lands... or the current state land behind their property.

The rumors we heard from a few locals is that they are now selling some big chunks of some of the land they currently own in parts of ID. It was also rumored that the some of the land was offered to be bought (in some cases, back) by the state and/or Federal for reduced prices, but that they passed on this. Not sure who/what to believe, but I assume we will become more familiar with it all when we get up there full-time later this summer.

edit: duh! https://www.wilksranchbrokers.com/pr...or-sale/idaho/

I will also agree with Whitewater in that access to public land is probably the biggest concern that we've heard, too. Although, that 30,000 acres south and west of McCall and S. of New Meadows is a little concerning for the possibility of a massive development project.

[banjomike]

It will be interesting to see how any of those properties sell.

They're all 'trophy kingdoms', and 20+ years ago, they are a real hot ticket for the ultra-wealthy in Montana, but there, the bloom went off the rose, and a lot of those huge spreads were later sold piecemeal or at a loss.

I'm not so sure that they're as hot anymore as they were back then. Different times, different generations.