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I have a feeling with the recent rioting in the cities and the Wuhan scare, the escape to the rural areas will accelerate. Hope I'm wrong.
It's still nice where I'm at in the Spirit Lake area but I've heard that there will be developments coming east and south of here. I think it's one of the reasons that Super 1 came up in Athol. There are several buildings coming up fast around the Super 1. The good thing about Spirit Lake is that building is restricted for now due to the limited capability of their sewer system.
The traffic on US95 north of CdA gets heavy in the summer especially with amusement park traffic.
When you're uprooting your life and hoping to put down roots in a place that's over 2,000 miles away, it's really unsettling to think that the area you're relocating to is likely to change very significantly in the next 5-10 years.
Same boat here, I'm in SC and looking at moving to northern Idaho. I know it is known to be a strongly conservative area that will actively defend the constitution and personal rights and freedoms. I have a friend here that is also wanting to move north that is bent on convincing me that NH is better. And while the land is cheaper there and taxes seem less due to no income or corporate tax, it's just not really convincing me it's better.
But, both states seem to be getting invasions of "liberals" that want to change things to be more "progressive". While I'm not against progress, I've not seen much evidence that their version of it is actually increasing anyone's well-being or freedom.
But either way, at least I wouldn't have to deal with the oppressive humid heat of the south anymore, so there's that I'm pretty actively looking in Bonner and Boundary counties right now. I dunno what the job market is like, but people obviously survive there everyday, so I'm sure I can find something. I have a long background in automotive.
The Covid escape to Idaho happened. Blaine County, the Idaho home for all the movie stars and financiers had a terrible outbreak at the beginning of the pandemic and for some time was the hottest infection spot in the state.
The outbreak there is thought to have come from someone, or several someones, who came to their trophy chalets after being infected in Europe or China but didn't show any symptoms.
Ironically, Blaine is now the county with the fewest new cases in the state. Ketchum's mayor quite literally closed down the town's entrances and put an enforced quarantine in place long before any other city in Idaho quarantined. It appears to have stopped the spread cold now.
But in early March, Blaine had about 38 deaths from the virus there. That's very high for Ketchum, a town with only around 4800 year-round residents.
Ketchum's real estate is probably the highest in the state, but lately, appears th to have maxed out.
Bruce Willis, a former resident who once owned quite a lot of real estate there, has been unable to sell his trophy cabin. It was originally priced at over $17 Million (and it's a compound, not a single home), but has never gotten a serious offer since he left. It's down to $7.5 Million when last I checked.
It's a very good place for anyone who hates shoveling snow; all the outside pavement is heated. It's self-shoveling. That includes some of the access road to the house.
I have an acquaintance who is a realtor here in Sandpoint. I had been wondering whether the predominant trend going forward from recent events would be an acceleration of folks looking to get out of larger metro areas in favor of places that are safer, or if the economic disruption would force folks to delay their relocation plans. I spoke with him last week, and he's seen a noticeable uptick in interest from people looking to move here sooner rather than later. Just a single data point, so it should probably be taken to be anecdotal, but it's an indication of where things might be headed.
To the OP, yes, Idaho overall has been growing by leaps and bounds, and not just in the CDA area. I don't expect that to change overnight, but it very well may be a self limiting trend. As real estate prices increase, and we see some other quality of life factors degrade (such as traffic), it will make it a less desirable relocation destination. Longer term, I think we may also see a generational shift that comes into play. The baby boomer generation seems to include a lot of people who have had a pent up desire to move to a more rural area, and so many are doing so when they retire. That trend may not continue to be as prevalent for successive generations though. I've read some studies that indicate this is something that may be somewhat unique to the baby boomer generation. Only time will tell I guess ...
I do have a sure-fired way to avoid having to deal with the issues that come with a growing population: Live somewhere that most people will find undesirable. I say that only partially in jest. It's a fact of life that anywhere that ranks high on the desirability list will attract others to come live there. For people looking for a somewhat rural area with lakes and forests north Idaho will rank high on that list. For people looking for a mid-sized city not beset by the ills of decades of poor governance Boise still looks attractive. If you look around the American west you can identify more than a few places that used to be known for high quality of life. Quite often that lead to population growth, which in turn brought higher real estate prices, higher cost of living, and arguably lower quality of life than they once had.
Perhaps it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
Its odd to me that cost of living is so close, yet you get hit with a 7% state income tax, higher or similar housing costs, and similar sales tax. I was just wondering where you save money at to make them similar in the end? Sorry, I have looked at the calculators but was just trying to get a real sense of "if I shell out 7% of my income up front, what am I paying less on later to have the overall cost of living the same"....
Anyways when I was looking at Redfin...I would be selling right near the hottest market in the country, and apparently moving toward the second hottest market in Spokane....Luckily I have a small acreage here, near a ferry terminal that will start a dedicated fast ferry service to Seattle this summer/fall...
Thanks for allowing my question in your thread, back to the OP
I find a need to point this out from time to time: Do not be lulled into a false sense of economy by focusing on the lack of an income tax in WA.
WA and their local governments spend about $10k per capita each year.
ID and their local governments spend about $5k per capita each year.
WA may not have an income tax, but they do collect that additional $5k per capita from its population somehow. Their chosen tax generation strategy may be more or less favorable to your particular situation. IDK, only you can sort that out.
But my advice is don't be fooled into thinking you are getting something for nothing just because they don't have an income tax.
I find a need to point this out from time to time: Do not be lulled into a false sense of economy by focusing on the lack of an income tax in WA.
WA and their local governments spend about $10k per capita each year.
ID and their local governments spend about $5k per capita each year.
WA may not have an income tax, but they do collect that additional $5k per capita from its population somehow. Their chosen tax generation strategy may be more or less favorable to your particular situation. IDK, only you can sort that out.
But my advice is don't be fooled into thinking you are getting something for nothing just because they don't have an income tax.
Dave
Agreed. People are attracted to no income tax states, but their overall taxes may end up being more when all taxes are considered (i.e., property taxes).
Volo, please expand on your anti Washington attitude. Washington is diverse and has a mostly conservative East side if that is what you are talking about. I think Washington is generally a good state but can understand some who don’t appreciate the Olympia politics. But as the 2nd largest population in the west it can’t be ignored.
When you're uprooting your life and hoping to put down roots in a place that's over 2,000 miles away, it's really unsettling to think that the area you're relocating to is likely to change very significantly in the next 5-10 years.
No one can ever escape who they are.
If a person has grown up in an entirely different part of the country, where there are millions more people than there are here in Idaho, and the culture and traditions of that place are very different, it can't be expected that the person will change once he crosses the state line, registers his car and becomes an Idahoan.
By law, that's going to the the fact, but in life, the person will still be a Californian, Missourian or whatever.
That doesn't mean someone can't change that, though. I've known folks who have moved here from other places, including other countries, all my life. Those who adjusted and came to love the life here a lot all stayed for the rest of their lives.
Those who adjusted but didn't love it as much often moved when a better opportunity arose elsewhere. And those who came and never liked it here all left as soon as they could.
The biggest changes most newbies encounter are:
- A lack of conveniences.
Leaving a city where about everything is available 7 days a week,24 hours a day creates the expectation things are the same here, but they are not. In our small towns, most things that are in a big city are simply not there.
Things like dry cleaners, 2 or 3 fast food joints, dentists, furniture stores, boutiques. Many times, the closest they can be found is in the closest 'big' town, which can be anything from 15 to 100 miles away.
And once you go to the 'big town' to do your shopping on a Sunday, most of them will be closed if they are there at all.
In our 'big cities', which are all actually small to medium-sized in the national average, a newbie is more likely to find shops with more essential goods and services, along with more optional stuff, but there won't be as much selection or competition as one will find elsewhere.
That varies. Some of our larger towns are hub cities, and others aren't. The hubs typically serve a wide to extremely wide service area, and sometimes the hubs are small themselves, especially when the surrounding area has almost no folks living in it.
- Cultural differences.
Though this is changing, there are still many cities in Idaho that are populated by families who have lived in the area for generations. For many of those families, that little corner of Idaho is about all they know and have ever known.
A newcomer can be accepted, but will always be a newcomer to many of those folks, even after 4o or 50 years. (But after that long, it's more of a joking matter than a serious one.)
This means a family's kids are going to be strange to the locals when they attend school, and the kids could have a hard time fitting in. For the adults, the same is true, but it could mean the newbie doesn't land the good sale to a customer; the local who works at the place gets the sale, even though it isn't as good.
- Climate differences.
This is a cold, arid, mountainous, northern state. Don't expect the climate will be anything but cold and dry, and don't expect the roads will be easy to travel on, or will be fast and smooth travel. Don't plan on breaking out your summer wear in late spring. Don't put on a pair of shorts thinking the day will be hot in the mountains.
And for your own safety, don't wear flip-flops out in the boonies even when it's a nice, hot day.
Wilderness is still Idaho's natural state. Civilization is only a thin veneer on top of it, and the wild is very very close by here everywhere. That includes our climate. Being a pioneer is hard and wearying. Anyone who moves here is a modern-day pioneer if they haven't grown up close to wilderness.
It is very hard for folks who have never been here to see all of the above, and I've only scratched the surface.
Here are some things I've observed about newcomers:
Those who complain about the lack (of whatever- it can be anything) usually don't stay here for the rest of their lives.
It partly depends on how much 'lack' is complained about, and what the lack is.
A locale's only radio station, for example, can be nothing but country music, and the station may go off-air at midnight. If you don't like country or want some music on a late-night drive, you'll be out of luck.
Naturally, the newcomer will complain if all they listen to on the radio is hip-hop or something else. But if you want to listen to hip-hop here, you'll have to find it as best you can other places and bring it with you on a drive. Complaining won't change the reality, and will only make you disgruntled.
That goes with many other things. Someone has to learnt accept the differences here and take them for what they are. In time, as a person learns what's in our communities, they can often find things that are scarce here, as few are completely non-existent. But finding them may require more than walking to a neighbor's house or a short drive across town. It could require an all-day expedition and a tankful of gas as often as not.
We are highly sociable here, but sociability often comes with curiosity about strangers. Which can be seen as snoopiness by the stranger. And, for sure, there will be some snoops who want to know all about you, just because they're snoopy.
And sometimes suspicious. In a town that doesn't get a lot of folks moving in or out, a newcomer can be seen suspiciously up to no good by some folks. Laughing about it won't relieve their suspicions.
We tend to be very patient people. Since our weather is so unpredictable, our distances so vast, and our population is so few, things like standing in line out here is not something for the impatient. For us, it's a chance to visit with someone we haven't seen for a while, or something that must just be borne as a necessity.
If it takes 2 hours to "get to town" to have something done, then standing in line has to be done patiently to get it done. If you grow impatient and leave, it just means another 2-hour trip will be needed.
All of this can change with time spent in living here. The folks who stay here for their lives all tend to take on a lot of the local things if they try, and begin to act and think as if they had lived here all their lives.
When a newcomer accepts things are different here, listens and learns more than tries to keep attitudes they brought, and sees life as something they are in for the long run, not the day, it's not always hard to adapt to life here.
Happiness is a frame of mind as much as anything. If a person feels joy in what's here, that's happiness. If a person is full of regret about what's not here, that's misery, not happiness. It may require some forced optimism at first to be happy here, but once the things are found a person truly wants in life, the optimism won't need to be forced.
But if the regret from leaving so much behind is great enough, a newcomer won't ever be happy here. Eventually, all they will want is to go back to where they came from. I've seen it many times.
And for those who've spent everything moving here and have committed to spending forever here with little preparation for the Idaho life, leaving to go back may be impossible.
That could mean a life of perpetual anger, frustration, and misery for many years to come.
I've seen that too.
So do not be impetuous about moving here. Come and spend several times here, many times, in many different places, before you make the decision to pack up the pickup.
Your money will be better spent on looking around than spent on a moving van. And when you can plan a trip here and know in advance, after spending much time in consideration in your familiar surroundings of your home, and go looking for the details in your own perfect place in Idaho, that's the time you will be the most ready to make your home here.
If a person has grown up in an entirely different part of the country, where there are millions more people than there are here in Idaho, and the culture and traditions of that place are very different, it can't be expected that the person will change once he crosses the state line, registers his car and becomes an Idahoan...
Great post banjomike. It highlights real world actual hardships and challenges that most people who relocate to ID (or AK & MT for that matter) because “it’s pretty” fail to realize, especially if they are located in a highly populated area. I think a lot of this for those of us “newcomers” who share similar to the same culture and values as Idaho has minus the CA influx can be an easier transition versus someone who’s far left coming in from LA, Austin or anywhere else dominated by the left and is high population. I believe the hardest two things newcomers will struggle with are winning over some of the rural folks as you aptly mention and the weather if you’re in the north or out east around Island Park/Yellowstone.
For me and my wife we are going to fit in quite well. Personally I’ve had plenty of experience living in very rural Texas where things are a bit more distant and “inconvenient”, we just don’t have the snowed in element. Personally I’m looking for that experience of getting away and being “inconvenient” for lack of a better term. Both of us want lots of snow, a great place to raise our daughter and to get the hell away from anything Texas has. It also helps we have now and more in the future family and friends in and around Coeur d’Alene/Bonners Ferry.
My brother moved to Alaska in 2015 for most of the same reasons why we are going to move to Idaho and his insight and experience with that will be quite helpful and informative as he experienced all of what you mentioned times infinity. Everything is turned up to 11 in Alaska and is the ultimate destination for truly getting away but there unless you live in a major town like Anchorage, Wasilla, Palmer and etc you will pretty much die if you aren’t highly skilled and experienced in survival and being inconvenienced. It is a rather fascinating subject but I digress.
Last edited by volosong; 06-19-2020 at 10:22 AM..
Reason: no need to post the entire, lengthy post that is just above
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I'm pretty actively looking in Bonner and Boundary counties right now. I dunno what the job market is like, but people obviously survive there everyday, so I'm sure I can find something. I have a long background in automotive.
