I'm not afraid to say it. (Reasons for moving to ID) (Post Falls: for sale, how much)

[ejay]

That's the problem as I see it in Idaho now. Too many people are fed up with where they live and they relocate here thinking that this is the place to be. The problem is the people running the show are only concerned with getting things they want not the overall heath of the community. We have an aquifer that may or may not run out of water at some point. My neighbor told me the other day that you are going to have to get a permit for your well now, even if you have had it for years. They are going to do a study on how many people are using water out of the aquifer. Look at the steam plant on the prairie something like in the millions of gallons a day sucked out. This place only became interesting in the last few years with all the big chain stores. If it would have never had those stores most people would not be here. And the ignorance of the people who come from the city about this place makes me sad. Their seems to be a double standard. People who look and act like locals are laughed at or made fun of. And their way of life is going away for them. The transplants don't care they have what they want. There is a segment of society here that is getting pushed by the wayside and that saddens me. I am working on a project to show how much of the area has changed over the years with pictures. I have photos from the seventies and eighties that I am compiling together for my blog. I am also going to include pictures from today and things that I see going on. I want this place to preserve what made it special in the first place. We have open spaces for now but after all the houses go onto the prairie you won't see the mountains anymore you'll see nothing but subdivisions and endless traffic. Remember what you left and how much you hated it because if you don't your only moving your problems north and making the rest of us deal with all the negatives that are sure to follow. I don't blame anyone for leaving I just wish they would realize that they just like the illegals they are running away from are moving into someone else s home.

[DanBev]

Originally Posted by DESERTRYDER

With just a few weeks left at work and retirement coming all my friends ask " Why would you want to move to Idaho ".

I have given this alot of thought and there is no way to say it without sounding like I'm racist.
I am just sick of my town and my state turning into little Mexico.
40 kids in my sons classroom and the govenor is cutting teachers because the state is going broke paying for all the social programs . 45 kids next year.
Trash litters our streets and the front of homes with handfulls of children sitting there in the middle of it doing nothing. My dad would have kicked my ass for not taking the time to clean up our own yard without direction from him. It was a pride thing. . What has happened to the community sprit that led me to think that everyone's yard is always clean.
I must have watched Wally and the Beaver way too much...
Gangsters and murder every day front page of the Fresno Bee.
Cops being second guessed by liberal politicans because they were too harsh of these punks that show absolutely no regard for anybody.
I believe that if a cops has to chase some hoodlum across town at a high rate of speed his adrenline alone should find him innocent after he kicks this punks ass. Back to street duty with a pay raise and a job well done.
Now tonight in a local department store it looked like a bomb went off.
Clothes and shoes laying all over the floor with kids running unattended everywhere. Every advertisement over the PA system was in spanish.
I was imbarressed to be in there. What has happend to our town? We were outcasts in our own city.
I know that life won't be perfect when we get to Idaho.
I just want it to be an improvement from central California.
Now the TAXES , traffic , air polution, diminishing ground water, and OHV trail closures are a whole different rant.
Somebody slap me down and tell me how wrong I am.. Or is it just time for us to leave?

This is a typical problem thruout quite a bit of the United States,the sloppiness and uncaring of people.South Florida probably fits into same picture as yours.To much for nothing and greed have taken over this country.Why are we taking in welfare people which will always be a burden let alone the problems they create.

[norcalmom101]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

NCM,

I hope you don't think I was accusing you of calling me (or others) a racist. I was saying that in a more general sense since it IS bandied about in so many threads here on CDF...

Thank you Sage

[norcalmom101]

Originally Posted by ejay

That's the problem as I see it in Idaho now. Too many people are fed up with where they live and they relocate here thinking that this is the place to be. The problem is the people running the show are only concerned with getting things they want not the overall heath of the community. We have an aquifer that may or may not run out of water at some point. My neighbor told me the other day that you are going to have to get a permit for your well now, even if you have had it for years. They are going to do a study on how many people are using water out of the aquifer. Look at the steam plant on the prairie something like in the millions of gallons a day sucked out. This place only became interesting in the last few years with all the big chain stores. If it would have never had those stores most people would not be here. And the ignorance of the people who come from the city about this place makes me sad. Their seems to be a double standard. People who look and act like locals are laughed at or made fun of. And their way of life is going away for them. The transplants don't care they have what they want. There is a segment of society here that is getting pushed by the wayside and that saddens me. I am working on a project to show how much of the area has changed over the years with pictures. I have photos from the seventies and eighties that I am compiling together for my blog. I am also going to include pictures from today and things that I see going on. I want this place to preserve what made it special in the first place. We have open spaces for now but after all the houses go onto the prairie you won't see the mountains anymore you'll see nothing but subdivisions and endless traffic. Remember what you left and how much you hated it because if you don't your only moving your problems north and making the rest of us deal with all the negatives that are sure to follow. I don't blame anyone for leaving I just wish they would realize that they just like the illegals they are running away from are moving into someone else s home.

Really well put. Your project sounds awesome. Maybe Idaho should require a "citizenship" class for relocators such as myself.

[ehs51]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 79
MALICIOUS HARASSMENT
18-7902.Malicious harassment defined -- Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person, maliciously and with the specific intent to intimidate or harass another person because of that person’s race, color, religion, ancestry, or national origin, to:
(a) Cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) Damage, destroy, or deface any real or personal property of another person; or
(c) Threaten, by word or act, to do the acts prohibited if there is reasonable cause to believe that any of the acts described in subsections (a) and (b) of this section will occur.
For purposes of this section, "deface" shall include, but not be limited to, cross-burnings or the placing of any word or symbol commonly associated with racial, religious or ethnic terrorism on the property of another person without his or her permission.

Statutes


Is this the Idaho law some folks are feeling oppressed by?

Thanks norcalmom101 for posting the relevant sections. In truth people rarely click on a link to go and look at something, especially when it is the actual law, because laws are usually complex with many sections of legalese. So it's real nice that you excised the section and posted it here.

These are intense issues of quality of life in Idaho. Since my post has been mentioned a number of times, I have the right to respond, even though some are starting to question whether this is on topic for this section of the discussion groups. It is, because it is quality of life, and because I have the right to respond.

A little while after I posted my earlier remark, I thought, uh oh, this can be mis-interpreted to be stronger than I was saying. And I was thinking of posting another "clarifying" statement - as the politicians say. But after seeing all the comments above, I am not going to succumb to Stalinist/Bolshevist show trials intimidating me to grovel and recant. That is not the way of the West, and by West I mean the countries of the West.

But let me hone in on my concern. These hate crime laws, however they are being dressed and sold to us, or sold to various groups, - and by the way I am a member of one of those special groups, but I am rebelling from their official party line (and I'll tell you, it's not piece of cake). My focus concern is that no matter what we are told hate crime laws are, in reality a major part of the intent of these laws is to intimidate the speaking of logical lines of evidence (ie, something like truth) when some group doesn't want that evidence presented. I must ask you to not put words in my mouth beyond that. I probably should repeat that: you must not put words in my mouth beyond that. On the other hand, you should know that truth is not, and never has been, an innocent fuzzy wuzzy happy wappy process. People who think it is don't know history or what truth is. The most intense struggles today and in history have been over truth, religious, political, and probably in other ways too. You cannot make the world a fully pleasant easy going un-upsetting place from people saying things, unless you ban freedom to speak truth.

There is a 1936 film "Things to Come". It was a film covering the next 100 years. Utimately toward the end the film, science was for the first time about to fly men to the moon. But the public revolted because of the risk that there would be to the people on the rocket ship (with the development of technology and an easy world, the public had become soft). The public was lead by emotionalism and frenzy to try and destroy the space craft, but at the very end, their attempt fails and the rocket takes off.

The film concludes with a stirring statement that there is never a cacoon security for mankind and ideas.

Let me state again, my focus is on the right to speak truths, not just acceptable truths.
Let me be plenty brave and bold and say that the problem with the above law is part (c) as it is restricted to speaking words. There is incredibly open leeway to be exploited, and expanded over court interpretaions over the years into the future, as to the phrase "there is reasonable cause to believe that acts [described earlier in a and b] will occur". The law does not even mention any notion of intent behind the words! But even if it did, this is incredibly open leeway to be exploited.

All words motivate, whether in Idaho or in Communist China.

Again, I will boldly state that truth must be speakable, even if it is not acceptable to this or that individual or this or that group. Let those who do *acts* be prosecuted.

Have I signed some eventual death warrant for myself because people who don't like what I say, hate me for saying it. Who knows? We are entering some very difficult times in history (in spite of the fuzzy wuzzy soft image of the world that is given to the public on the TV and elsewhere). Whether it is Idaho or other states or other countries, all these places are being pulled into a great struggle to criminalize people who speak certain lines of logical evidence. Legislatures are intimidated to pass these hate crime laws because the public is given loose vague language and sneaky logical connections, and the public gets whipped up into frenzy and the legislatures don't dare not pass these hate-crime laws (examples of emotional frenzy and loose logic and imprecise words and associations between words, are starting to appear even in this thread - in fact even the comment made by norcalmom101). Frenzied misleading vague associations in language are not the formula for continued freedom in the US, or in Idaho, or anywhere else. Good people have to start standing up against muddled language and frenzied emotionalism. I myself have no doubt that there are those who are intent on banning certain truths, and that this is the real reason for these hate crime laws - to ban speaking of certain truths - and I believe that the varous groups supposedly to be protected from unsettling speech against them, are being used. The previous sentence is my belief - please note that you are not required to believe my belief. But apart from my beliefs, I am also asserting the right for all to speak logical lines of evidence, even when some don't want it spoken.

The above is very much a quality of life issue in Idaho, of course. And many people are intensely interested in these issues. Many are also keenly interested in what kinds of associated dynamism and strength and life and intellectuality that there will be in Idaho now and in the future. These are among the most important issues of quality life, and energy of life and truth, in Idaho.

[norcalmom101]

Can you provide any example of law enforcement in Idaho misapplying this statute in the course of their duties?

IMHO threatening to do violence against another because of their perceived belonging to one of the groups defined in the statute, where there is a reasonable possibility that the act will be committed, is something which not only is criminal, but which should be criminal. I can say I hate gays, whites, mexicans, blacks, catholics, mormons, atheists, californians, whatever, till I'm blue in the face, without ever violating this statute.

I think it is reasonable to expect that when one threatens violence against others there will be contact with law enforcement, and where the threat is a legitimate one criminal charges will be filed, whether it is a domestic violence incident, a disgruntled employee or client, or conduct covered under this statute.

Give law enforcement a break in Idaho, and just don't threaten others with violence. At the very least, it's rude, and to make a threat is to commit an act, one which if capable of being realised may well be a prosecutable one.

[DOUBLE H]

Originally Posted by pimit2

Sandpointian writes:

As usual, Sandpointian makes a lot of sense.

I read what those who are leaving California for a new life in Idaho have to say, and I am saddened to hear their stories But, the problems in California are the result of many factors, not a single issue. Like Sandpointian, I urge those moving from California to Idaho to embrace what we have here, not what they are leaving behind. I know each of you is seeking perfection. Well, Idaho is not perfect. It's close! It's the people of Idaho - the caring citizens - that are helping to make Idaho near-perfect.

We're looking for good citizens. We seek people who can make Idaho an even better place to live. People like Jake Plummer, the retired NFL quarterback who now makes Sandpoint his home....and more. Plummer is a good citizen who is helping his new community by extending his hand to both the youth and seniors of Sandpoint. He's a volunteer football assistant coach for Sandpoint High School and he volunteers to deliver hot meals to home-bound seniors for the "Meals on Wheels" program. That's the kind of people we need!

Jake Plummer was recently interviewed on local TV. To see what kind of a person (and citizen) he is, go to:

6 Questions - KHQ Right Now - News and Weather for Spokane and North Idaho |


pimit2 (Bob)

Thanks for that link pimit2! A quick note on Jake. I've been a Bronco fan for 44 years. I had the pleasure of talking to Jake after one of the Bronco home games and also an appearance for the Denver Bronco Quarterback Club. One of the first things he did when he signed with Denver in 2003 was get to know community leaders and start his Jake Plummer Foundation. He would be one of the first players in the parking lot for home games. I know, because RV parking is only 100 feet where the players entrance. He was ALWAYS very good about autographs, ALWAYS.

And I admire Jake for what he is doing now. Putting a smile on someones face. Befriending seniors who have no idea who he is other than the guy who brings the meals in from the van. Getting involved in the community-something all of us can appreciate.

When it comes right down to it, there are only two types of people; good and bad. A community cannot have enough GOOD people.

[ehs51]

Here is my opinion on some of the issues in this thread. I think the Idaho law that NorCalMom101 quotes is almost certainly extremely punishing of those who seek truth and those who seek the right to speak truths, and in my opinion even this is an understatement.
Here is my opinion again. I don't think the law is at all representative of the spirit of the great state of Idaho.

NorCalMom101 keeps asking for how will the law oppress people's right to speak truth. I think you can see the effects of these sorts of laws and ideas just by looking at how quickly people in this thread have backed down before any comment by NorCalMom101. Look through the thread. It is fascinating. I believe there is trickiness in this Idaho hate speech law which makes it hard to defend against people who are saying the law does not block free speech. The people who defend this law seem to have a variety of powerful one-liners that we haven't figured out how to break through yet.
In my opinion, somehow we are being outwitted at every turn. In my respectful judgment, the law is a murder strike at the heart of the process of truth as that process occurs in the real world. This is a strong opinion, but I believe my opinion is valid. The un-intimidated freedom to seek and speak truths is a requisite for life-energy in any geographical region. In my opinion, don't judge Idaho just by this one discussion thread.

Reading this thread, you would think opinions of the people of Idaho are almost all safe and one-dimensional.
I don't think that is at all the situation about Idaho and the people who live there. To people thinking of moving to Idaho, you are free to input my opinion with other opinions you read. Also, in my respectful opinion, judge cautiously people who speak about good and bad people moving to Idaho. That may be a way of labelling certain people without having to defend why they are being labelled bad.

That is what I strongly believe, and people deciding about moving to Idaho have to decide for themselves. But don't be too discouraged by all the uncertainty of what Idaho is like. Not just in Idaho, but our whole country is involved with the same struggles of intimidation of speaking truths. Even the likely new Supreme Court nominee, Elena Kagan (who would take the position vacated by Justice Souter).
According to one statement about Kagan, "Her 1993 article 'Regulation of Hate Speech and Pornography After R.A.V,' (60 University of Chicago Law Review 873; available on Lexis/Nexis) indicates someone who is entirely on board with seeking ways to circumscribe free speech in the interests of multicultural virtue."

Actually there is huge diversity of ideas in Idaho. I was exploring for information on Idaho and was lead to google "Randy Weaver" and came across an interesting 2002 Lew Rockwell article on Weaver.
Remembering Randy Weaver (there is also some video interview of Weaver, which I want to find, which might be good).

I am pretty sure that parts of ideas that might be associated with statements by Weaver would scare me, but I speak honestly when I say I doubt they would scare me nearly as much as ideas that might be associated with statements made by norcalmom101. I am stating a truth about my feelings. I have the right and un-intimidated freedom to state a truth. And I am. As respectfully and as well as I know how.

To all reading this, have a great day and enjoy the energy of life and keep the requisites needed for the continuation of that energy! Once an environment of un-intimidated free speech is destroyed, it might not be so easy to get it back.

[Cali BassMan]

Originally Posted by ejay

. Remember what you left and how much you hated it because if you don't your only moving your problems north and making the rest of us deal with all the negatives that are sure to follow. I don't blame anyone for leaving I just wish they would realize that they just like the illegals they are running away from are moving into someone else s home.

Great wisdom in that statement: Don't move somewhere else, bringing your negative aditude, and wanting them to change to your ways.....Remember the old saying "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do"

[Rickers]

The problem is that when hoards of people move in, a lot of bad apples follow and there really isn't much anyone can do about it. The tighter you cram the rats together the more they chew on each other. What we need is more "Rat Police" because personal responsibility and respect are rare attributes these days.