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What makes you think that illegals, overall, have a negative impact on the American economy? I've seen studies which argue otherwise, and which claim that the anti-inflationary effects of illegal labor have helped make the American economy one of the strongest and most-resilient in the world. They also 'fill the gaps' in a society like ours with low unemployment. This allows for a more efficient allocation of labor. The cost of social services would pale in comparison to those benefits - those costs are in the billions, but the benefits are probably over a trillion dollars added value to our national GDP per year.
Illegals have put American Citizens out of work. If the illegal was not there with the cut rate wage, and no need to pay benefits, then the American who would normally fill that spot would be making more money, and have benefits. Does the price of everything go up? Yes, but we have more of our people working, and everyones wages go up to compensate anyway.
The illegals fill NO 'gaps' that wouldn't be taken by an American if they were not here. Americans don't work for nothing, we know what we are worth and demand it. The company hiring illegals should be fined as well for doing so.
Illegals have put American Citizens out of work. If the illegal was not there with the cut rate wage, and no need to pay benefits, then the American who would normally fill that spot would be making more money, and have benefits. Does the price of everything go up? Yes, but we have more of our people working, and everyones wages go up to compensate anyway.
The illegals fill NO 'gaps' that wouldn't be taken by an American if they were not here. Americans don't work for nothing, we know what we are worth and demand it. The company hiring illegals should be fined as well for doing so.
This argument could go on all day.
Well, they create jobs in addition to taking jobs, so their overall economic impact is probably at least neutral, in the BIG picture.
However, they certainly cause wage suppression at the lower levels, and the employers would likely need to elevate wages somewhat to attract "legal" workers. In the fairness to US citizens, this is defacto reducing wages, and when you add the secondary cost of education and medical, it becomes a matter of fairness and overall stress to the support system. In all likelihood, the businesses benefit while the lower level wage earners are somewhat hurt. It certainly contributes to the skewed income distribution in the USA.
So it is a problem in my view, though 30 million is a figure I have never heard before (source?).
I think one of the unreported problems with the illegal alien debate is how many people take an emotional reaction to the issue and do not think through their feelings on the whole thing. I read many postings from the supporters of illegal aliens and they are basing their opinions based on emotion and a general lack of knowledge or logic. They seem to be less informed than the critics of illegal immigration and just use code words like racism and family unification, instead of really thinking things through.
I'd argue that many of the opponents of illegal immigration base their opinion on emotions with sayings like "we're being invaded" or "30 million freeloaders".
This speaks to me that they really do not understand the situation nor do they take the time to find out who illegal immigrants are, why they came here, and what we can do to prevent them from coming in the future.
I live and work with legal and illegal immigrants. I've dealt extensively with USCIS and I know a lot about the immigration system. I understand the situation and see why it occured. I think I have a good solution. Before I had these experiences, I did not care about illegal immigration and would have agreed with the OP.
Now that I have educated myself and experienced the matter first hand, I am a supporter of immigration reform that is more favorable to future immigrants and current illegal aliens than many people here who's only connection to the matter is that they pay taxes or see deal with the occasional day laborer.
There are others who are educated and experienced on this topic who believe just the opposite for their own reasons.
Last edited by sponger42; 08-21-2007 at 02:44 PM..
Reason: Added "many of"
What will the southwest be like when Mexicans take over
Think things through. If Aztlan and La Raza have their way, our land will become Mexico. So what would happen then?
1.) Social security payments would stop.
2.) All welfare will stop
3.) Electricity which is produced elsewhere will stop.
4.) Funds for roads would stop
5.) All funds for hospitals would stop.
6.) All funds for education would stop.
7.) All non-Mexicans would leave including police, fire dept, hospital workers, teachers, etc.
8.) All American banks would close.
9.) Water supplies would be cut in half ...or more.
10.) New borders with new fences would be erected.
11.) Most American industry would leave.
12.) No more American minimum wage.
13.) Native Americans would have a choice to give up their land and move to America or stay and give up their citizenship. Then the Mexican government would null and void any American agreements.
14.) All Mexicans who want to stay American citizens would be force to abandon their property.
15.) Fuel pipelines and trucks from America would only come to the stolen land if they chose.
The result of all of this will be large scale rioting, looting and eventually a civil war.
Stop following a pipe-dream, you fools. This place would become just like Mexico, the very nation people actually die trying to leave.
This one is funny. Why would they leave when they can pay their workers less, worry less about environmental regulation, taxes, and fair labor practices? Because, ya know, no American industry has ever relocated to Mexico for those reasons I just stated.
Illegals have put American Citizens out of work. If the illegal was not there with the cut rate wage, and no need to pay benefits, then the American who would normally fill that spot would be making more money, and have benefits. Does the price of everything go up? Yes, but we have more of our people working, and everyones wages go up to compensate anyway.
The illegals fill NO 'gaps' that wouldn't be taken by an American if they were not here. Americans don't work for nothing, we know what we are worth and demand it. The company hiring illegals should be fined as well for doing so.
This argument could go on all day.
Excellent point. I heard a good example of the effects of illegal immigration a while back.
Say you have two car washes in a neighborhood. They both wash, wax and dry vehicles by hand, and they are both paying their employees a decent wage plus benefits. The employees will never get rich, but they can pay their rent and they have a medical plan.
Meanwhile, one of the car wash owners decides to hire illegals. He figures he doesn't have to pay them as much, and he'll give them no benefits at all. Because he is paying less in wages and benefits his profits go up, and because his profits are up, he pays more in taxes so President Bush is happy. The car wash owner likes more profits so he now hires all illegal aliens to work at his facility. He now pays them so little Americans no longer will work at his car wash. The car wash is now making so much money the owner can actually lower the cost of a car wash, and offer his services to the neighborhood cheaper than the other car wash that still hires Americans.
The public, always wanting to save a buck, starts going to the cheaper car wash that hires illegal aliens. Now the other car wash has lost so much business, the owner now has to lower his employee wages and cut his employees benefits or go out of business. The only way he can effectively compete is by hiring illegals himself.
Now imagine the same thing happening throughout our entire meatpacking industry, retail stores, warehouses, construction industry and pretty much every entry level job in America. We have lost anywhere from 10 to 30 million American jobs to illegals.
Excellent point. I heard a good example of the effects of illegal immigration a while back.
Say you have two car washes in a neighborhood. They both wash, wax and dry vehicles by hand, and they are both paying their employees a decent wage plus benefits. The employees will never get rich, but they can pay their rent and they have a medical plan.
Meanwhile, one of the car wash owners decides to hire illegals. He figures he doesn't have to pay them as much, and he'll give them no benefits at all. Because he is paying less in wages and benefits his profits go up, and because his profits are up, he pays more in taxes so President Bush is happy. The car wash owner likes more profits so he now hires all illegal aliens to work at his facility. He now pays them so little Americans no longer will work at his car wash. The car wash is now making so much money the owner can actually lower the cost of a car wash, and offer his services to the neighborhood cheaper than the other car wash that still hires Americans.
The public, always wanting to save a buck, starts going to the cheaper car wash that hires illegal aliens. Now the other car wash has lost so much business, the owner now has to lower his employee wages and cut his employees benefits or go out of business. The only way he can effectively compete is by hiring illegals himself.
Now imagine the same thing happening throughout our entire meatpacking industry, retail stores, warehouses, construction industry and pretty much every entry level job in America. We have lost anywhere from 10 to 30 million American jobs to illegals.
EXACTLY. If someone cannot understand that in plain English, then they are probably not a US Citizen.
We have lost anywhere from 10 to 30 million American jobs to illegals.
How so? There aren't even 30 million unemployed Americans. For various reasons, economists consider an unemployment rate around 4% to the "full employment." We are very close to full employment in America, and have been for a while. Illegals certainly haven't prevented this.
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What will the southwest be like when Mexicans take over
