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Old 11-30-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
15,256 posts, read 14,867,999 times
Reputation: 6803

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I don't give a flying fig whether the "immigrant" or "minority" population grows or declines. But, I do care that millions of babies have been born to people who have no legal right to be here. And, yes, most are born at taxpayers' expense, and most will remain a tax burden for many years to come, if not the remainder of their lives, as well as their offspring. After all, it is not uncommon for generational welfare to exist in many families. As a taxpayer, yes, I do object. Now, please share your "rational" evidence to prove that most are not being supported by taxpayers. I'll wait.
Unless all these illegal immigrants are having back-alley births, they're being recorded at hospitals and factor into the overall national birth rates. Funny how illegal immigration is said to be constantly exploding on this forum, and yet they can't seem to produce enough babies to raise the national birthrate.

You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to welfare. Poor and brown doesn't mean moocher, no matter how many times you say so.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,855,050 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Here's the link I read: Report Finds U.S. Birth Rate Has Dropped to Lowest Level Since 1920 - Yahoo! News

Mexican women had the largest drop in the rate, at 23% down. But here I thought Mexicans were shooting out 10 children each to mooch off the welfare system. How is this possible? I don't know, but is it possible that people in this forum are, gasp, wrong?
And here I read the OP as being foreign-born moms. Why are you making it about one Nationality? 23% is roughly 1 in 4. The report doesn't distinguish between citizens and illegals, but merely US-born women (which includes illegals previously born anchors) and foreign-born women (both legal and illegal) who are here one way or the other. Benicar pretty much pointed to the quote from the article that shows there is still a disproportionate birth rate by foreign born moms and if you add in the anchor babies that are having children, that increases it even more.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 11-30-2012 at 01:56 PM..
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,757,079 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Unless all these illegal immigrants are having back-alley births, they're being recorded at hospitals and factor into the overall national birth rates. Funny how illegal immigration is said to be constantly exploding on this forum, and yet they can't seem to produce enough babies to raise the national birthrate.

You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to welfare. Poor and brown doesn't mean moocher, no matter how many times you say so.
Obviously, you don't realize our government refuses to identify illegal alien births. Hospitals must estimate based on their lack of ID, lack of English skills, and other factors. Some hospitals have even reported delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande. However, the "Hispanic" birthrate has grown at a disproportionate rate over the past decade. I believe it's fair to assume a large percentage, if not the majority, are illegal aliens. In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country.

Quote:
Results from the 2010 Census showed that racial and ethnic minorities accounted for 91.7% of the nation’s growth since 2000. Most of that increase from 2000 to 2010—56%—was due to Hispanics

Minorities accounted for 93.3% of the nation’s population growth from April 1, 2010 (Census day) to July 1, 2011, according to Census Bureau data released today.

Immigration is an important contributor to higher birth rates among Hispanics, because foreign-born women tend to have more children on average than U.S.-born women. Most growth in the Hispanic population from 2000 to 2010 was due to births, not immigration, a change from the long-time pattern. But most births to Hispanic women are to those born outside the U.S.
Explaining Why Minority Births Now Outnumber White Births | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Of course, they don't specify that the "Hispanic women born outside the U.S." are here illegally. Also, "minority" has become another code word for Hispanic when discussing birth rates.

When did I say "poor and brown" equal moocher? Please quote me. Nor did I ever mention skin color. I don't give a damn about color. Perhaps you'd like to explain why I should.

I am still waiting for your "rational" proof. Where is your evidence to support your claim that illegal aliens, by and large, are not being supported by taxpayers? Who do you think is footing the bills for their prenatal, maternity, WIC, welfare, and subsidized housing they receive "on behalf of" their U.S.-born children? Do you think they all have health insurance when they arrive here? Do you think they pay out-of-pocket for the thousands of dollars in medical expenses for the delivery of their babies?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,583,913 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Unless all these illegal immigrants are having back-alley births, they're being recorded at hospitals and factor into the overall national birth rates. Funny how illegal immigration is said to be constantly exploding on this forum, and yet they can't seem to produce enough babies to raise the national birthrate.

You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to welfare. Poor and brown doesn't mean moocher, no matter how many times you say so.
Low skilled, non-English speaking high school dropouts from Mexico aren't desirable American citizens no matter how many times the racist hispanic lobby says so.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:20 PM
 
42,989 posts, read 18,877,607 times
Reputation: 11904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I don't give a flying fig whether the "immigrant" or "minority" population grows or declines. But, I do care that millions of babies have been born to people who have no legal right to be here. And, yes, most are born at taxpayers' expense, and most will remain a tax burden for many years to come, if not the remainder of their lives, as well as their offspring. After all, it is not uncommon for generational welfare to exist in many families. As a taxpayer, yes, I do object. Now, please share your "rational" evidence to prove that most are not being supported by taxpayers. I'll wait.
There is another negative outcome to illegal immigration and their offspring. Most of them are from one ethnic group. I thought we were about diversity so that immigrants would assimilate to our culture and language rather than the other way around. Oh gosh, I forgot, it is presumed racist for this country to want to retain its identity, etc. while still being a melting pot. Gee, I wonder if Mexicans in Mexico would welcome an illegal invasion by the millions into their country and they were no longer noted as a Hispanic country with Spanish as their dominant language among other cultural identities?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:28 PM
 
42,989 posts, read 18,877,607 times
Reputation: 11904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Obviously, you don't realize our government refuses to identify illegal alien births. Hospitals must estimate based on their lack of ID, lack of English skills, and other factors. Some hospitals have even reported delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande. However, the "Hispanic" birthrate has grown at a disproportionate rate over the past decade. I believe it's fair to assume a large percentage, if not the majority, are illegal aliens. In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country.


Explaining Why Minority Births Now Outnumber White Births | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Of course, they don't specify that the "Hispanic women born outside the U.S." are here illegally. Also, "minority" has become another code word for Hispanic when discussing birth rates.

When did I say "poor and brown" equal moocher? Please quote me. Nor did I ever mention skin color. I don't give a damn about color. Perhaps you'd like to explain why I should.

I am still waiting for your "rational" proof. Where is your evidence to support your claim that illegal aliens, by and large, are not being supported by taxpayers? Who do you think is footing the bills for their prenatal, maternity, WIC, welfare, and subsidized housing they receive "on behalf of" their U.S.-born children? Do you think they all have health insurance when they arrive here? Do you think they pay out-of-pocket for the thousands of dollars in medical expenses for the delivery of their babies?
Here is a good link backing up your remarks, Benicar.

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare | Judicial Watch
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,335,177 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Obviously, you don't realize our government refuses to identify illegal alien births. Hospitals must estimate based on their lack of ID, lack of English skills, and other factors. Some hospitals have even reported delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande. However, the "Hispanic" birthrate has grown at a disproportionate rate over the past decade. I believe it's fair to assume a large percentage, if not the majority, are illegal aliens. In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country...
We're going to work backwards through your statements, to show how you build on false pretenses (within this topic). How can a category of "Hispanic immigrant births" be the "majority of growth" when births to non-Hispanic Whites are double all Hispanic births in the United States? A little over a year ago, all minority births together barely eclipsed births to non-Hispanic Whites. About four million babies were born that year, less than a million to Hispanics, slightly over a million to other minorities, and two million to non-Hispanic Whites.

All Hispanics have never had more births than non-Hispanic Whites (63.7% of the U.S. population in the 2010 Census), which would be needed for them to be "a majority of the growth in this country"....

A few months ago on this forum I went through the numbers, showing less than a third of Hispanic births in the United States would have had at least one illegal alien parent (usually the mother). You "assume" Hispanic births are to illegal aliens because (among other things) you aren't familiar with the Hispanic population in the Southwest and other regions of the country. I'm going to need a source about the statement that some hospitals are reporting "delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande" (that almost sounds like a "malamute" quote).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Of course, they don't specify that the "Hispanic women born outside the U.S." are here illegally...
"Benicar", within a little more than a year ago, we have been blessed by a baby (my Granddaughter) born to a mother that was herself foreign-born. Her mother isn't an illegal alien. All of my future Hispanic Grandchildren will not be born to an illegal alien mother, unless something wildly changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Also, "minority" has become another code word for Hispanic when discussing birth rates...
I'm still trying to figure out why, especially since I know you are not a White prone to make these kind of statements, would say something like this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...When did I say "poor and brown" equal moocher? Please quote me. Nor did I ever mention skin color. I don't give a damn about color. Perhaps you'd like to explain why I should.

I am still waiting for your "rational" proof. Where is your evidence to support your claim that illegal aliens, by and large, are not being supported by taxpayers? Who do you think is footing the bills for their prenatal, maternity, WIC, welfare, and subsidized housing they receive "on behalf of" their U.S.-born children? Do you think they all have health insurance when they arrive here? Do you think they pay out-of-pocket for the thousands of dollars in medical expenses for the delivery of their babies?
I think you first need to prove whether those babies are truly born to illegal aliens parents...
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,757,079 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We're going to work backwards through your statements, to show how you build on false pretenses (within this topic). How can a category of "Hispanic immigrant births" be the "majority of growth" when births to non-Hispanic Whites are double all Hispanic births in the United States? A little over a year ago, all minority births together barely eclipsed births to non-Hispanic Whites. About four million babies were born that year, less than a million to Hispanics, slightly over a million to other minorities, and two million to non-Hispanic Whites.

All Hispanics have never had more births than non-Hispanic Whites (63.7% of the U.S. population in the 2010 Census), which would be needed for them to be "a majority of the growth in this country"....
Apparently, you missed this. . .

Quote:
Results from the 2010 Census showed that racial and ethnic minorities accounted for 91.7% of the nation’s growth since 2000. Most of that increase from 2000 to 2010—56%—was due to Hispanics


Minorities accounted for 93.3% of the nation’s population growth from April 1, 2010 (Census day) to July 1, 2011, according to Census Bureau data released today.

Immigration is an important contributor to higher birth rates among Hispanics, because foreign-born women tend to have more children on average than U.S.-born women. Most growth in the Hispanic population from 2000 to 2010 was due to births, not immigration, a change from the long-time pattern. But most births to Hispanic women are to those born outside the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
A few months ago on this forum I went through the numbers, showing less than a third of Hispanic births in the United States would have had at least one illegal alien parent (usually the mother). You "assume" Hispanic births are to illegal aliens because (among other things) you aren't familiar with the Hispanic population in the Southwest and other regions of the country. I'm going to need a source about the statement that some hospitals are reporting "delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande" (that almost sounds like a "malamute" quote).
Please see the last sentence of the above quote. It clearly states that "most" of the births are to Hispanic women who were born outside the U.S. Do I also need to post data on the "first time in U.S. history" we have had more illegal immigration than legal?

You should know by now, I don't make up stuff. As requested. . . .

Quote:
Joe Riley is the CEO of the McAllen Texas Medical Center near the Texas-Mexico border. Forty percent of the children born there, nearly 2,400 last year, were the babies of illegal immigrants.

Riley has seen and heard it all.

"Mothers about to give birth that walk up to the hospital still wet from swimming across the river in actual labor … dirty, wet, cold," he said.
Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense - CBS News


Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
"Benicar", within a little more than a year ago, we have been blessed by a baby (my Granddaughter) born to a mother that was herself foreign-born. Her mother isn't an illegal alien. All of my future Hispanic Grandchildren will not be born to an illegal alien mother, unless something wildly changes.
Congratulations! There are millions of Hispanics in this country legally who give birth. I have no problem with that. As long as I don't have to support them, more power to them. I assume your stepdaughter and/or her husband work to support the child. However, the fact remains, illegal immigration accounts for the majority of births.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I'm still trying to figure out why, especially since I know you are not a White prone to make these kind of statements, would say something like this...
Sorry, but "minority" has become another code word for Hispanic, just as "undocumented" is a euphemism for illegal alien. I don't make those silly rules, nor do I subscribe to them. In my opinion, it's ridiculous, because Hispanic is not a race. I am still trying to understand how a "white" Hispanic can be a minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I think you first need to prove whether those babies are truly born to illegal aliens parents...
You started this thread, why don't you prove they aren't. And, if they aren't, why did you post this in the Illegal Immigration forum?
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:29 PM
 
42,989 posts, read 18,877,607 times
Reputation: 11904
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We're going to work backwards through your statements, to show how you build on false pretenses (within this topic). How can a category of "Hispanic immigrant births" be the "majority of growth" when births to non-Hispanic Whites are double all Hispanic births in the United States? A little over a year ago, all minority births together barely eclipsed births to non-Hispanic Whites. About four million babies were born that year, less than a million to Hispanics, slightly over a million to other minorities, and two million to non-Hispanic Whites.

All Hispanics have never had more births than non-Hispanic Whites (63.7% of the U.S. population in the 2010 Census), which would be needed for them to be "a majority of the growth in this country"....

A few months ago on this forum I went through the numbers, showing less than a third of Hispanic births in the United States would have had at least one illegal alien parent (usually the mother). You "assume" Hispanic births are to illegal aliens because (among other things) you aren't familiar with the Hispanic population in the Southwest and other regions of the country. I'm going to need a source about the statement that some hospitals are reporting "delivering babies to women still wet and dirty from the Rio Grande" (that almost sounds like a "malamute" quote).



"Benicar", within a little more than a year ago, we have been blessed by a baby (my Granddaughter) born to a mother that was herself foreign-born. Her mother isn't an illegal alien. All of my future Hispanic Grandchildren will not be born to an illegal alien mother, unless something wildly changes.



I'm still trying to figure out why, especially since I know you are not a White prone to make these kind of statements, would say something like this...



I think you first need to prove whether those babies are truly born to illegal aliens parents...
If it is true that the non-hispanic white birth rates are so much higher than the Hispanic birthrates in this country then would you mind explaining why so many pro-illegal immigrants come into this forum rubbing their high birthrates in our faces claiming that whites have literally stopped producing babies and that they (Hispanics) will be the majority in this country in a very short time? Surely you have read those posts but I have never seen you correct them on it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,757,079 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
If it is true that the non-hispanic white birth rates are so much higher than the Hispanic birthrates in this country then would you mind explaining why so many pro-illegal immigrants come into this forum rubbing their high birthrates in our faces claiming that whites have literally stopped producing babies and that they (Hispanics) will be the majority in this country in a very short time? Surely you have read those posts but I have never seen you correct them on it.
That's an excellent point. I would also like to see his response.
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