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Old 11-30-2012, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,335,177 times
Reputation: 602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Please see the last sentence of the above quote. It clearly states that "most" of the births are to Hispanic women who were born outside the U.S. Do I also need to post data on the "first time in U.S. history" we have had more illegal immigration than legal?...
It's fairly easy to resolve. Hispanic births (of any status for the mother) dipped below one million last year. I believe about 30% of that (or about 300,000 per year) is to illegal alien mothers. Another 21% of that as births to Hispanic legal immigrant mothers would make the majority as foreign-born.

Earlier you responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country...
Hispanic "immigrant" births are less than Hispanic (of any source) births, which are less than non-Hispanic White births (numbering about two million last year). Thus Hispanic "immigrant" births cannot be a majority of growth on their own. Coupled with all other "minority" influences (births and immigration, with the understanding that non-Hispanic Whites are in negative growth despite the number of births) it very well matches that minorities together are contributing more to population growth.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,335,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Quote you: "How can a category of "Hispanic immigrant births" be the "majority of growth" when births to non-Hispanic Whites are double all Hispanic births in the United States? A little over a year ago, all minority births together barely eclipsed births to non-Hispanic Whites. About four million babies were born that year, less than a million to Hispanics, slightly over a million to other minorities, and two million to non-Hispanic Whites"

Please don't turn this into another circular argument. I won't play that game with you.
I'm having a hard time determining whether you are following the math correctly, or what exactly you are asking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Numbers alone don't tell the story, only when the per cent of the population is also taken under consideration can there be a clear picture. If one race or ethnic group comprises 15 % of the population but makes up 68% of the welfare roles, that is a clear picture.
False premise, non-Hispanic Whites are the majority in population, and also the majority on "welfare roles". I found the quote was interesting the way it was phrased. Here it is again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So the biggest abusers of the social service network and tax payer dollars are taking the biggest hit in birth rate, awesome. Sometimes there is a jewel in a recession even if it's hidden.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:36 AM
 
47,531 posts, read 63,158,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Numbers alone don't tell the story, only when the per cent of the population is also taken under consideration can there be a clear picture. If one race or ethnic group comprises 15 % of the population but makes up 68% of the welfare roles, that is a clear picture.
It's because some people consider only the cash give-away called "TANF" to mean welfare.

Obviously illegals are not paying for their births or paying their pediatric bills and have a very very high rate of Medicaid and food stamps. Schools with high percentages of hispanics have 80% and higher numbers of children in the free breakfasts and lunches programs

But -- for those who consider only TANF to be welfare, it is true that illegal mothers can't apply to get their free cash reward for having babies here -- but they do get the Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, Section 8, free school meals and so on.

Hispanics are the largest group living in "poverty" in this country -- and their poverty rates are growing at very fast rates. The blacks living in poverty have decreased. Poverty of course means Medicaid, food stamps and the rest -- and TANF checks to mothers here legally which very often isn't the case with hispanic mothers.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:57 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,855,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
In the post you are responding to, the "23%" is the drop in the birthrate of women from Mexico (thus the listed nationality), not the percentage of births in the U.S. to foreign-born mothers (also 23%)...

There seems to be many math and comprehension errors on the comments of this topic...

Now back to addressing (again) the biggest one (so far)...
Its always better if you don't attempt to join someone else's conversation. The comprehension failure seems to be on you as to the comment I left in regards to jbcmh81 who made it a point to bring Mexican Women into the discussion.
Quote:
Mexican women had the largest drop in the rate, at 23% down. But here I thought Mexicans were shooting out 10 children each to mooch off the welfare system. How is this possible? I don't know, but is it possible that people in this forum are, gasp, wrong?
//www.city-data.com/forum/27152218-post6.html

I simply called out his racist claim.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:00 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,855,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I'm having a hard time determining whether you are following the math correctly, or what exactly you are asking...
Numbers are easy to manipulate, overall numbers you may be right, but percentage wise you may be wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
False premise, non-Hispanic Whites are the majority in population, and also the majority on "welfare roles". I found the quote was interesting the way it was phrased. Here it is again:
Only if you go by overall numbers, not percentages.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,757,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It's fairly easy to resolve. Hispanic births (of any status for the mother) dipped below one million last year. I believe about 30% of that (or about 300,000 per year) is to illegal alien mothers. Another 21% of that as births to Hispanic legal immigrant mothers would make the majority as foreign-born.

Earlier you responded:



Hispanic "immigrant" births are less than Hispanic (of any source) births, which are less than non-Hispanic White births (numbering about two million last year). Thus Hispanic "immigrant" births cannot be a majority of growth on their own. Coupled with all other "minority" influences (births and immigration, with the understanding that non-Hispanic Whites are in negative growth despite the number of births) it very well matches that minorities together are contributing more to population growth.
Sorry, but your "belief" doesn't count. Prove that only 30% of the births were to illegal aliens. In addition, I'm not sure what part of "MOST births to Hispanic women were to those born outside the US" you are not comprehending. I await your proof.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:12 AM
 
47,531 posts, read 63,158,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Numbers are easy to manipulate, overall numbers you may be right, but percentage wise you may be wrong.




Only if you go by overall numbers, not percentages.
AND if you choose to consider just the one welfare handout program called TANF.

When you look at food stamps and Medicaid, Section 8 --- the picture changes.


http://www.kff.org/medicaid/upload/8189.pdf

Hispanics on Medicaid -- 27% compared with white Americans at 11% --- not to mention 32% uninsured hispanics who of course are added to the Medicaid rolls as they access health care.

Only 33% of hispanics living in the USA bother to buy their own health insurance.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,335,177 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sorry, but your "belief" doesn't count. Prove that only 30% of the births were to illegal aliens. In addition, I'm not sure what part of "MOST births to Hispanic women were to those born outside the US" you are not comprehending. I await your proof.
Oy vey! - All of those Hispanic women that have immigrated (whether they have now naturalized, are still Legal Permanent Residents, or are illegal aliens) were "foreign born", and will be for the rest of their lives. If the illegal alien component of that are having births, why is it so hard to believe the other portions are not? What percentage of foreign-born Hispanic mothers are you defining as being illegal aliens?
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,855,050 times
Reputation: 299
I find this article from CIS pretty interesting in regards to the purported PEW study as noted in the OP.

Sloppy Reporting, Media Bias Downplay Very High Immigrant Birth Rates | Center for Immigration Studies
Quote:
"Report: U.S. birth rates hit record lows, largest drop among immigrant Latinas". And you might have been puzzled by this text:
The numbers tell the picture quite clearly. Between 1990 and 2010, for example, the birth rate among U.S.-born Hispanic women dropped from 82.4 percent to 65.4 percent.
Wow! One hundred of these women used to have 82.4 babies a year, and now, 100 of them have only 65.4 babies a year?
Well no, what the article, for a publication called NBC Latino, meant was that the number of babies a year per 1,000 women in that population had declined by that amount; as any fifth grader knows, that is not a percentage.
and this
Quote:
This article, as many others on the subject, focused on an immediate bit of news (the dropping birth rates) as did the underlying Pew Research Center Study without paying much attention to the unpleasant background situation.
That grim and unreported news is that the country's population is increasing at unsustainable levels, and that one of the major reasons for that is the high birth rates of foreign-born women. The current dip in birth rates, welcome as it is, does not detract from the much higher birth rates of foreign-born women as compared to U.S.-born women. In 2010, births per 1,000 women ages 15 to 44 (the standard measure) were:
  • Foreign-born women: 87.8
  • U.S.-born women: 58.9
The birth rate for immigrant women is almost half again as high as it is for U.S.-born women; it is 149 percent of the rate of the latter group.
That's the vital part of the news that the media is either blind to, or seeks to downplay.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:21 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 63,158,000 times
Reputation: 22320
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Oy vey! - All of those Hispanic women that have immigrated (whether they have now naturalized, are still Legal Permanent Residents, or are illegal aliens) were "foreign born", and will be for the rest of their lives. If the illegal alien component of that are having births, why is it so hard to believe the other portions are not? What percentage of foreign-born Hispanic mothers are you defining as being illegal aliens?
Naturalized but still unable to learn any English, finish high school, marry, or buy their own health insurance and will receive food stamps, WIC, Section 8 housing, and free meals at school for their US born welfare dependent children.

Remember -- if they could have learned responsibility and self control back in their own countries, and limited their family size to what they could afford, their own countries would be in far better shape and they wouldn't have to flee them for the generous American programs like Medicaid and food stamps.
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