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We're headed into a pretty hard recession and job loss has been very high, and job creation non-existent.
I would think it's difficult to defend the importation of millions of impoverished people. With gas prices headed up fast, heating fuel, food prices climbing -- just how can American taxpayers support all these people and their families coming in?
Just because we're heading toward a recession does not mean people will take jobs at the fields. I believe the only way it would get that way, is another depression.
Just because we're heading toward a recession does not mean people will take jobs at the fields. I believe the only way it would get that way, is another depression.
There are fewer than 2 million jobs in all of Agriculture in the USA. Only 25% of those jobs are held by illegals.
Now all the other jobs that illegals are doing? Certainly you can't claim all 30 million are here picking lettuce.
There are fewer than 2 million jobs in all of Agriculture in the USA. Only 25% of those jobs are held by illegals.
Now all the other jobs that illegals are doing? Certainly you can't claim all 30 million are here picking lettuce.
I'm not claiming anything, those are your words. I never said all illegals are picking lettuce. From what I read in the articles on our local newspaper, those figures are close to 90%-95%.
There is only one reason the Democrat Party supports "illegal immigrant rights." They have utilized and intend to further entrench permanent Demographic voting trends into Electoral victories for the next 50+ years. Hispanic migrants since the last Amnesty overwhelmingly vote for Democrats by a margin of 4 out 5. Allowing Democrats assured long term electoral success without regard to the efficacy and effectiveness of their programs.
80,000 jobs is nothing when the businesses that use illegal labor go out of business and all of their legal labor is let go. Talk to a farmer or a small restaurant owner and ask them if they can stay in buisiness if they have to pay their corn pickers and bus boys more than the minimum wage.
Within an extensive immigration plan, legislation needs to be included for allowing companies that depend on cheap labor to be able to hire immigrant workers lower wages so that they don't have to undercut the system by bringing in more illegal workers. That is why it is call "extensive" - it deals with all of the issues at once so that the cycle that you are talking about does not continue.
I have yet to see a plan for getting all of the illegal immigrants out of the country. Perhaps you and Lou Dobbs can sit down and come up with a plan, but I really doubt it.
There is a program for that. They issue those workers H2-A seasonal work visas. Unfortunately, Congress won't increase the quotas, which are far too small. They are all gone on the day that the program opens up every year before buisinesses in a lot of states even have a chance to apply for them.
I think the main reason that H2-A isn't wildly popular if found here: https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/co...worker-program It doesn't allow employers to exploit the workers and requires that they show no US citizens are available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
You say 80,000 jobs is nothing? Tell that to the 80K who lost their jobs. Would you have such a flippant attitude if you were included in that figure? I think not.
The issue is NOT minimum wage payment; there will always be minimum wage earners. The issue IS employers who pay LESS THAN minimum wage to illegals who will accept it as an improvement over their paltry wages in their countries of origin -- and are willing to live 15-20 per house.
As mentioned ad nauseam –- strictly enforce the current laws, fine and imprison illegal employers, and end ALL freebies. If they are unable to work, and unable to receive food stamps, WIC, subsidized housing, etc. – THEY WILL LEAVE!
You got to wonder why when this has been said again and again that they don't get it. It is so simple. As before I compared it to a problem the neighbor had by feeding a stray cat. Soon every stray cat in town was showing up and hanging around. They quit putting food outside. Problem solved. Cats relocated.
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Originally Posted by Kele
So you believe that there should always be a segment of the population relegated to a less than living wage.
Interesting.
Many of those jobs WERE done by students who can no longer find jobs because illegals are working them. Here, many high school students need to work to supplement their families' incomes.
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Originally Posted by trzlucky
A wage that is more than they would be trying to survive on in their own country - yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Whether or not it is more than they would bring home in their country of origin is irrelevant.
They are residing in the U.S. where the cost of living is higher.
What you are telling us is that you believe it is okay for the U.S. to support an underground economy where the participants receive less than they need in order to survive in this country by virtue of their illegality--an indentured servitude if you will and that businesses must be allowed their indentured servants so that those of us who are allowed to openly participate in the U.S. economy aren't forced to pay fifty cents more for our Big Macs in order to allow employers to pay their LEGAL employees a living wage.
Shame on you.
And, whose fault is it that they are residing illegally in the US? Plus they supplement with anchor babies having many more children than US citizens could ever dream of affording to have and support. This discussion isn't about minimum wage but about people, criminals, and why the Democrats are soft on illegal immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trzlucky
Let's get crazy here and pretend for a minute that we could get every illegal immigrant out of the country so that we no longer have any workers that are making less than minimum wage. Food prices are out of control already - how much do you think an ear of corn is going to cost when small farmers have to pay $10/hour for corn pickers. My guess is that it wouldn't matter, because that farmer isn't going to find enough people to pick the corn and he won't be able to compete with the large farms that do everything with machines. That small farmer goes out of business and we have even less people owning businesses and less people working.
Deport all illegal immigrants without creating some type of workforce that will do the jobs that they do for close to the price that they do it and this economy falls apart.
Just look at what happened to the nation's manufacturing when wages went up too much - Everybody ******* about all of the manufacturing jobs that this country has lost. Guess what - our actual manufacturing production levels have increased, but it is mostly done by machines now. Manufacturing workers priced themselves tot he point that that companies were forced to send their companies overseas or use machines to make those products. Yaaahhhh unions - the guys that are working are making a lot of money, unfortunately there are now a lot less people working.
Please refer to my links above about the myth associated with the costs going up if we boot the illegals. We still have manufacturing jobs where we live. Sadly, our citizens are let go and are replaced by illegals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
1. Heavily fine and imprison all employers found to have illegal aliens in their employ.
2. Cut off all social services to illegal aliens and their anchor babies except life threatening emergency care.
3. Legal residency must be proved before bank accounts can be opened or homes bought or rented.
4. In this computer generation, it is ridiculous to believe that identity theft by Social Security number cannot be tracked. Hold accountable the thieves stealing American identities in order to work illegally in this country.
Four simple steps and Voila! Deportation through attrition and Border Patrol doesn't have to raise a finger. Rewarding lawless behavior is a ridiculous proposition and only opens the door to more lawbreakers hoping for the same reward.
Besides, according to your theories of free market enterprise in the U.S., employers would still require their indentured servants whether or not the current crop is legalized and so if they are, the borders will still remain open in order to supply big business with its requisite slave labor.
Maybe Trump could use you on his staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo
The question states Democrats IN THE GOVERNMENT. And I am not asking about why Republicans support illegals, its obviously for big business, but I am asking why YOU think Democrats do because there are a plethora of reasons they could support illegals.
You can't really separate the reasons by party. I live in a state that is predominately Republican - Kansas. When I try to address e-verify or the fact that services would not need to be cut IF we kicked the illegals back where they came from, they will not answer. They don't return calls or emails.
Both the Democrats and the Republicans have a sector that exploits the illegals for one reason or another. I don't think it matters why and we sure know it isn't for unselfish reasons. We are all US citizens and should be working together to save our country from the decent to 3rd world status.
Legal citizens must unite and really push to get this done. We must get behind our candidates who share our passion for law enforcement on every level because they cannot do this alone.
As the thread continues, before you all get too outraged, remember this is a 2008 thread that god bumped - you really don't have to get angry over the same things you got angry over then.
Yac.
As the thread continues, before you all get too outraged, remember this is a 2008 thread that god bumped - you really don't have to get angry over the same things you got angry over then.
Yac.
Actually, nothing has changed and it isn't that we are getting angry again over the same things but that we are still angry.
I have watched our citizens being replaced by the illegals in manufacturing. Having moved to little Mexico, 3 years ago and desperately trying to get out, I am now face-to-face with the problem like never before.
With Obama in, and the 7 years that have passed, it is not getting angry again, it is that we are even more angry than before and it is SO much worse since Obama has tied the hands of our law enforcement and given a pass to employers that hire illegals. I also spent 6 years in southern AZ, which was a real lesson in illegal immigration. I have seen my son with disabilities denied school services because of illegals needing English as a 2nd language when he didn't have a first and now, reductions in his services as an adult because of the anchor babies and their families using welfare and the emergency room 3 times more than a citizen so Medicaid can't help our own people with disabilities get the services they need which also contributes to homelessness.
Imagine not being able to go out for a walk with your dogs because a loose pit bull might attack and/or kill you, your child or your pets. Imagine a "hit and run" because the person is illegal, doesn't have a license or insurance. Imagine that you see coming your way, 3 or 4 families to a house and realize that you cannot stay in your present home through retirement no matter what because of what comes with the 3 or 4 families per house and we are often talking a 2 or 3 bedroom home built for a single family.
So, not a renewal of the anger, just the continuation and something like this only gets worse with time. It is like a hostile takeover at this point. I don't know why they have not engaged the National Guard whose mission is "to protect against all enemies both foreign and domestic".
Prior to 2008, I did vote straight ticket Democratic. I never approved of illegal immigrants or wanted them to have a pathway to anything other than their country of origin.
It really is THAT bad and getting worse all the time. Thus, my passion for the candidacy of Donald Trump.
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Thus, my passion for the candidacy of Donald Trump.
