Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Let's spend millions, even billions, in gathering them all up, putting them on buses, and then shipping them down to mexico. (you know you'd need people, or police officers for that). and perhaps we can borrow CNN's news helicopter and watch 30 million mexicans run back into the country.
Yeah. How logical does that sound?
Keep them here. Provide ways for them to become legal. Slap them with the missed taxes. Possibly even jail time, even. Heavy the fines for employers hiring illegals, off the books. $1500.. That one is a joke. Add three zero's to it and call it a day.
Wow, I guess you haven't heard about the new tough on illegals laws passed in Arizona and Oklahoma which caused a MASS EXODUS of illegals from those states? It's called self deportation. Enforce the law, remove the jobs magnet that bring them here and they won't come and they won't stay. All at little cost to American taxpayers.
I'd like to see a logistical budgetary accounting of the costs involved in a comprehensive deportation program. This program should be able to handle the deportation of illegal aliens caught at the border, employer raids, profiling or criminals leaving our jails.
Until then you have no idea how much it will cost or whether it is possible to deport 12 million people.
Strawman
Flash: We remove the jobs magnet with tough on illegals laws like they passed in Arizona and Oklahoma and the illegals here will self deport and the ones that aren't here yet won't come at all. Cost to American taxpayers, very little. It's called attrition through actual enforcement of immigration laws. It works.
Flash: We remove the jobs magnet with tough on illegals laws like they passed in Arizona and Oklahoma and the illegals here will self deport and the ones that aren't here yet won't come at all. Cost to American taxpayers, very little. It's called attrition through actual enforcement of immigration laws. It works.
With all of these laws can anyone post a picture of Americans doing what the illegals used to do in AZ or OK? You would think it would be widely available.
Most countries have immigration policies and laws and enforce them. NOT doing so would lead to . . . well, it'd be a bit like the US, if there were an economic or other compelling reason to want to be there.
Mexico DOES have an illegal immigrant "situation" -- wouldn't actually call it a problem. There are a number of US citizens living here (primarily in border areas) who are NOT legal immigrants, or visitors, to Mexico. Many "on the run", some hiding out from past due child support, some thinking drugs here are cheap and readily available -- you know, some of the scum from the north . . . .
Hey, since you came on board in March right after Calderon announced his 100 million dollar campaign to soften up the American public on the illegal Mexican invasion, you're not a part of that are you?
With all of these laws can anyone post a picture of Americans doing what the illegals used to do in AZ or OK? You would think it would be widely available.
Man, you are hung up on that photo aren't you? Do you have some sort of thing for American laborers? Personally, I don't too many folks who just walk up to the working man with a camera and ask for a photo.
"Hey dude. You sure look good in your chicken-plucking outfit. Mind if I snap a pic?"
As far as rights for illegal immigrants--they're all welcome to go home and fight for all of the rights they want. They only right they have in America is to go back to where they came from and get in line behind legal immigrants.
Most countries have immigration policies and laws and enforce them. NOT doing so would lead to . . . well, it'd be a bit like the US, if there were an economic or other compelling reason to want to be there.
Mexico DOES have an illegal immigrant "situation" -- wouldn't actually call it a problem. There are a number of US citizens living here (primarily in border areas) who are NOT legal immigrants, or visitors, to Mexico. Many "on the run", some hiding out from past due child support, some thinking drugs here are cheap and readily available -- you know, some of the scum from the north . . . .
In general, Americans obey the law and it is not unrealistic to expect people outside the US to respect our laws with regard to immigration. Most people do. Viewing the laws of the land as 'optional' is one of the things that differentiates First World countries from the often chaotic societies of Third World countries. A large influx of individuals with this mindset (I don't have to obey the immigration laws, it's OK to get a stolen/forged ID, I don't need to have a driver's license or bother purchasing car insurance, I don't need to pay hospital bills, etc.) does not portend well for the US.
With all of these laws can anyone post a picture of Americans doing what the illegals used to do in AZ or OK? You would think it would be widely available.
I answered your question on this subject in another thread. You have still failed to directly respond to any, let alone each of my points to each of your questions.
Here it is in case you missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50
I think many of you are missing the impetus of my question(s):
Many here on forums say: "Americans will do those jobs that illegals are doing".
If so, and we have a recession now, with layoffs, etc.
1) Why not gather those hard working people (instead of crying or guarding the border) and go get those jobs?
These are aren't the kind of jobs that will be posting on Monster.com.
Because you can't force an employer to give you a job. At least not here in America. If you were an employer whose bottom line was MONEY, would you fire your low paid illegal workers to hire legal Americans or Immigrants, and pay real wages, deal with employees who know their legal rights (actually know OSHA requirements, as well as know they are allowed X number of breaks by law, and so on) and do not fear deportation if they report you for said violations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50
2) What is stopping willing Americans from seeking these companies that hire illegals, applying for their jobs, then if they don't get the job, sue that company for discrimination against Americans? Thus creating thousands of class action lawsuits, the American way...
1) Because it takes MONEY to sue. Lawyers are not free, not unless your case looks REAL good.
2) Because proving discrimination is difficult, especially if you are not a minority and the other group is a minority
3) Because lawsuits take years to resolve and your average American wants a Job not, 10 years sitting in court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50
3) Where is the "MinuteMen" type organization that actually gathers unemployed Americans to take illegals jobs, thus putting them out of work?
See #1 above. You can't force an employer to hire you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50
4) I keep hearing about "Americans were lining up for the illegals jobs", so where is the evidence of that?
I just keep hearing about companies closing their doors, because they can no longer find labor.
What sort of Evidence do you want?
Government Statistics? Those take one to three years to acquiring and another few years to debate.
News reports? It isn't going to be reported as news because "If doesn't Bleed, It Doesn't Lead". The Media doesn't even get the story.
Which of these two scenarios do you see happening?
1) An employer calling up the News Paper and saying "You know I commiting a crime by paying illegal aliens a substandard wage to work for me, but now that I have been forced to get rid of them I am now hiring Americans. And though I make less profit I still am in business."
or
2) An Employer saying "Aghhhhh, I didn't know my workers were poor illegals, I can't find workers and will go out of business and my family will starve in the streets!!!"
Which one is the media more likely to report?
The only other person who can call is the legal employee. Lets look at that conversation.
"Hello, NY Times, I'd like you to report that I got a job...Hello....Hello...."
"Hello LA Times, I was hired by a place that I think used to hire illegals. Do I have proof they used to do that, Well NO.....Hello....Hello"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50
5) It just seems most Americans want to sit on their hands on cry over it, when there is no evidence that illegals jobs will be replaced by Americans and we will just bring in more people from SOB legally, hich in effect will achieve what exactly?
EVEN if it were true that legal workers would need to come in, Legal workers are better then illegal. We know who they are, Background Checks can be done, They fear doing anything illegal and kicked out and thus loosing the job AND benefits. They don't use other people ID. They get proper medical checks for disease. And so on.
Hey, since you came on board in March right after Calderon announced his 100 million dollar campaign to soften up the American public on the illegal Mexican invasion, you're not a part of that are you?
You've asked that before. I've answered. You don't like it, or believe me? So what. Get over it!
You know, Random, you cluttered up another thread with your lengthy arguments, why here -- didn't like your answers there?
There was no direct answer to my statements. I answer all 5 of his questions. He has not responded directly to any of them nor shown that my response is incorrect or fails to address his questions. Yet he comes here and continues to troll the same sorts of questions. I will continue to give him the same answers. Since he is moving the question to different threads, It seems only proper that the answer to his question should also follow.
If you don't like my answers than ask him to stop asking the questions
Random
Last edited by RandomU; 04-07-2008 at 05:40 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
