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Old 09-03-2009, 08:10 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,135,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
No. Apparently, you do. Well, to each their own...untill it comes down to shipping containers and military style walls and an uneducated underclass.
Well you see, we already have an American underclass that lacks adequate education and frankly, it will most likely take all our resources just to get them up to speed so the uneducated illegal aliens simply need to leave.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:10 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,567,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Stop trying to change the subject. Answer the question.
Not changing the subject.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Well you see, we already have an American underclass that lacks adequate education and frankly, it will most likely take all our resources just to get them up to speed so the uneducated illegal aliens simply need to leave.
So what you are saying is that you want to take away even MORE resources from the American underclass to TRY (note I used the word TRY) to stop illegal immigration and deportation. That sounds like a great idea.

See, I'd rather see said resources work towards the underclass and trim the fat of society. I think that we should like at history to see examples of wars on ideals/intangibles (lost the war on drugs, losing the war on terror, and frankly losing the war on illegal immigration). Why? Because we (our side) is fighting a literal war when we should be focused on how to change the problem. In this case the problem is how to eliminate an illegal immigrant underclass. Providing a method of legalization via education would be a step in the direction.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 39,752,119 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
So what you are saying is that you want to take away even MORE resources from the American underclass to TRY (note I used the word TRY) to stop illegal immigration and deportation. That sounds like a great idea.

See, I'd rather see said resources work towards the underclass and trim the fat of society. I think that we should like at history to see examples of wars on ideals/intangibles (lost the war on drugs, losing the war on terror, and frankly losing the war on illegal immigration). Why? Because we (our side) is fighting a literal war when we should be focused on how to change the problem. In this case the problem is how to eliminate an illegal immigrant underclass. Providing a method of legalization via education would be a step in the direction.
Hold onto your fantasies there..............

Judging by just Arizona alone............the tide has turned against illegal immigration----------30-50% of those losers from Mexico, etc. have vacated this state.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Hold onto your fantasies there..............

Judging by just Arizona alone............the tide has turned against illegal immigration----------30-50% of those losers from Mexico, etc. have vacated this state.
Due to the crippling economic climate in Arizona. Last I checked, unemployment is at 9.5% with some of the highest forclousure rates in the nation (37% of the current market activity in the Phoenix metro region is simply from forclousures). See, in California the same is happening. It's due to the economy.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 39,752,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Due to the crippling economic climate in Arizona. Last I checked, unemployment is at 9.5% with some of the highest forclousure rates in the nation (37% of the current market activity in the Phoenix metro region is simply from forclousures). See, in California the same is happening. It's due to the economy.
Then why are the illegals fleeing Az but not Calif?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me
5,407 posts, read 4,629,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
A punishment is a type of consequence. The punisher supplies said consequence to the punishee. How hard is it to understand that the gov't punishes the children for the actions of their parents? The action was taken from the parents. The outcome is that they suffer the consquences (a punishment from the gov't).
Punishment infers an intentional, directed action from punisher to punishee. The consequences we discuss are not directed at the illegal child, but are a result of the actions taken by their parents in violation of US law. You're trying to argue a negative. Denial of benefits to someone who is not entitled to them cannot be a punishment.

You're viewing the witholding of something (a higher education) from someone who by definition is not entitled to it as a punishment. So if I deny a criminal the ability to take my plasma TV by putting locks on my door, I'm punishing him? Or maybe I'm punishing his children since they will not get to watch Telemundo on it.

My analogy holds. The loss of an opportunity at higher education in the US at US taxpayer expense is not a punishment as many US citizens will not (for whatever reason) have the opportunity to get a college education. It is a consequence of the parents' action in entering the US illegally and bringing an illegal child with them. I maintain that we owe that child NOTHING but a trip home with mama and/or papa (preferably both) as quickly as possible. (I'd say send them in a shipping container but you'll probably get your panties in a wad over that...)

Please explain how in your view the child is being punished. We know what consequences he/she/it faces due to the parents' action in my solution. What are the consequences in your scenario?

And where do you get off on handing out all these entitlements?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:29 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,567,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Then why are the illegals fleeing Az but not Calif?
They are leaving CA...that's what I just said.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,881 posts, read 15,917,559 times
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"Undocumented students"....hmmm....are these students without Microsoft Word? I just love the euphemism. Let's call them what they are...ILLEGAL ALIENS.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:35 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me
5,407 posts, read 4,629,441 times
Reputation: 5715
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
See, I'd rather see said resources work towards the underclass and trim the fat of society. I think that we should like at history to see examples of wars on ideals/intangibles (lost the war on drugs, losing the war on terror, and frankly losing the war on illegal immigration). Why? Because we (our side) is fighting a literal war when we should be focused on how to change the problem. In this case the problem is how to eliminate an illegal immigrant underclass. Providing a method of legalization via education would be a step in the direction.
Start trimming the fat by eliminating illegal aliens from our public education system.

We're not even fighting the war on illegal immigration. Send National Guard troops to the border with orders to shoot anything that moves over the border in anything but normal entry zones. (How's that for "eliminating the illegal immigrant underclass"?) Stop putting water jugs out for these criminals to slake their thirst. When caught, see that they're deported immediately - send the bambinos along directly from school.

You have a funny idea of "war". We're not even serious about fighting one.
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