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Old 08-18-2009, 04:01 PM
 
4 posts, read 4,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
And when the DREAMie is old enough to sponsor ma and pa, what are we supposed to do?
Why would we have to "do" anything. It would then follow the normal legal procedures for attempting to gain citizenship to the country with the additional hurdle of the parents being penalized for having entered illegally to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
the DREAMie who (hopefully) pursues an education after high school
The current version says they must complete at least 2 years of higher education.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:35 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,102,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredog View Post
Why would we have to "do" anything. It would then follow the normal legal procedures for attempting to gain citizenship to the country with the additional hurdle of the parents being penalized for having entered illegally to begin with.



The current version says they must complete at least 2 years of higher education.
That is what is known as rewarding bad behavior. If you have ever raised children, then you know how important it is not to do that.
The idea that madre and padre should get citizenship after some slap on the wrist type penalty is a joke. That is like putting a bank robber in jail for a week (his penalty) then giving him back the money he stole.
You see, if we gain one DREAMie with an education but also get his or her poorly educated family, then I would have to say that is not a very good deal for the US. I doubt whatever the DREAMie contributes in taxes is going to cover the long term costs of aging parents, aunts, uncles, etc.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:53 PM
 
4 posts, read 4,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
That is what is known as rewarding bad behavior. If you have ever raised children, then you know how important it is not to do that.
The idea that madre and padre should get citizenship after some slap on the wrist type penalty is a joke. That is like putting a bank robber in jail for a week (his penalty) then giving him back the money he stole.
You see, if we gain one DREAMie with an education but also get his or her poorly educated family, then I would have to say that is not a very good deal for the US. I doubt whatever the DREAMie contributes in taxes is going to cover the long term costs of aging parents, aunts, uncles, etc.
These are real people. You speak as if they are economic pawns in some kind of bartering system. Also, you aren't rewarding bad behavior. You would be punishing kids who havn't done anything wrong by their own accord.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
42,331 posts, read 38,404,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredog View Post
These are real people. You speak as if they are economic pawns in some kind of bartering system. Also, you aren't rewarding bad behavior. You would be punishing kids who havn't done anything wrong by their own accord.

So we let their Parents off the hook for their crimes? UH.... NO
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:05 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,102,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredog View Post
These are real people. You speak as if they are economic pawns in some kind of bartering system. Also, you aren't rewarding bad behavior. You would be punishing kids who havn't done anything wrong by their own accord.
If we grant amnesty to the DREAMie but refuse to allow them to sponsor madre, padre and the extended familia, then we are 'punishing kids? If we allow them to sponsor family members then we are punishing actual Americans (who also are real people) and frankly, I am more concerned about that. Does anyone ever accept responsibility for their actions in your world?
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:07 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,102,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So we let their Parents off the hook for their crimes? UH.... NO
That is exactly what they parents have been counting on. They have been counting on using their offspring as pawns to gain citizenship.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 39,518,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredog View Post
The other side to that would be: should the children of the man be additionally penalized for his father's actions? Which is what deportation of the kids amounts to, considering that you can't say a child is prospering from their parents being deported or arrested.

I just think that separating the child, who is an affected party to the crime i.e. victim, from the adult who committed the crime when deciding how to treat the situation is necessary for the sake of justice.
TOUGH!

DREAMies are illegal aliens just like their parents-----------all of them need to leave the USA.

As for the US born Anchor Babies: their illegal alien parents still need to leave and either take their minor age kids with them or have legal friends/relatives care for them here.
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:31 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,534,212 times
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You have to remember that since they are illegal, their kids must be subjected to inferior treatment. Therefore if they are remain in the US, they must be as uneducated as possible in order to "save" money. We must degrade standard of living in order to "teach them a lesson". However, if crime increases and tensions rise, we must understand that this is due to their nature of criminality. The illegal immigrants win if they improve their lot in life and obtain citizenship via education. We must not enable smart illegal immigrants to enter our university system. Even if said people will provide role models and services to the communities whence they came, they must not serve as role models since they show that our nation is a nation that cares...caring is a weakness. Caring means that we will fall as a nation. Only true Americans can be cared about. We have cared too much for the world. We give aid with strings attached. We consume more per capita than any other nation. We pollute more per capita than other nations. We create substandard jobs in the third world. We prop up ineffectual governments abroad. We do all this...and we get no thanks?

We don't need to care about those less fortunate. We need to spend more money on protected our border from marijuana dealers and terrorists. Our inner cities schools are just filled with either gang members, illegal immigrants, or drug types. They will never go anywhere since they choose that path. So, let's put money toward keeping the good people safe. The good, middle income people of America. The ones that speak English.

The USA needs to be prudent on making sure that the socialists in power don't enable education and healthcare to children of illegal immigrants. They don't deserve it. In order to make sure that illegal immigrants are not receiving social services, we should deport them. We will find those that match a profile of an illegal immigrant. This way, we will have a better chance of returning America to its rightful place.

Last edited by that1guy; 08-18-2009 at 07:32 PM.. Reason: America F YEAH!!!!
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 8,264,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
They get financial aid. If I am not mistaken Harvard will fully fund you if you are admitted and don't have the money. I also have several friends from MIT who were fully founded including a living stipend, but I'm not sure if there is a blanket policy for MIT as there is for Harvard.

I don't know of anyone who has been admitted to an Ivy league school and has not been given at least partial support if they cannot pay for it.
As someone who is in the midst of their college education, let me assure you that you cannot just apply to an Ivy League school, get accepted, and get funded.

In order to be funded you have to a) be an exceptional undergraduate student meaning an extremely high GPA, you will have published in your discipline before applying, be active in a variety of student organizations and/or community service activities and b) a graduate student.

There is federal aid available which does NOT cover all costs of tuition, fees, books, and living expenses (which ends with the completion of your undergraduate degree). In order to live you work and/or take out student loans to cover the rest.

Trust me, this I know. I'm a single mother and I am eligible for nearly every grant, loan, etc. that there is. By the time I finish my graduate degree, I will be about $50,000.00 to $70,000.00 in debt. I'm already carrying over $30,000.00 from my undergrad degree. I've been offered tuition and funding in the form of T.A. (teaching assistant) positions, but it still doesn't cover all of the costs associated with the pursuit of my graduate degree.

Not even Einstein could get full funding at an American institution of higher learning.

The fact that illegal aliens or their children could receive a free education courtesy of my tax dollars when my son and I have spent the last four years living on ramen noodles just to get by while I work to achieve my own DREAM of a college degree is galling and insulting as hell.

Last edited by Kele; 08-18-2009 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,301 posts, read 20,824,460 times
Reputation: 6534
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredog View Post
These are real people. You speak as if they are economic pawns in some kind of bartering system. Also, you aren't rewarding bad behavior. You would be punishing kids who havn't done anything wrong by their own accord.
Wrong. Once they are old enough to know about their staus they become guilty by not self deporting.
If I buy a car and later learn that it was stolen by the sellar I become a criminal if I don't turn it in to the police.
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