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Old 08-31-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,301 posts, read 20,820,776 times
Reputation: 6534

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Rather than looking at it as being punished, it's a matter of them having to deal with the consequences of their parents' actions. Put the blame back onto the criminal parents who chose to include children in their criminal activities.

As for how it affects me, if there is a single cent of taxpayer money spent on their education, I'm affected. That also includes allowing illegal criminals to receive discounts on education, or government-backed subsidies or loans, which they are not entitled to. Go home and apply for student visas, then pay full fare.
Now that is 1 excellent post. Well said and I agree 100%.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:26 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,533,228 times
Reputation: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Rather than looking at it as being punished, it's a matter of them having to deal with the consequences of their parents' actions. Put the blame back onto the criminal parents who chose to include children in their criminal activities.

Nope, it's a punishment...sorry, but that's what it is.

As for how it affects me, if there is a single cent of taxpayer money spent on their education, I'm affected. That also includes allowing illegal criminals to receive discounts on education, or government-backed subsidies or loans, which they are not entitled to. Go home and apply for student visas, then pay full fare.

So what you are saying is in reality it doesn't affect you...however, you feel the need to subscribe to a system will further create plight and blight. You'd rather see people go through a hassle for no real reason.
America F-YEAH!!!
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:31 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,533,228 times
Reputation: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
It must suck to have parents who are criminals. I can only imagine how that would feel.
Parents day. This is my dad. For a living he is a criminal. When he isn't using a stolen ID he works under the table and cheats on his taxes. When ever we are sick we go to the emergency room and lie about who we are. We pray that no police are there and really pray that no one turns us in. I am so proud of dad and I have learned so much from him.
Yes in deed just the kind of citizens we need to improve our society.
Umm...You do realize that the government also GAVE ITIN to illegal immigrants...

Also, seeing how we are talking about the children of these "criminals" (everyone has a broken a law, btw) these are types of people we need to improve our society. Those that have risen and give back to their communities and serve as role models. I don't understand how you people don't get that. More positive influences are needed in immigrant (be it illegal or otherwise) communities. Esp. if they are from lower income communities.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,301 posts, read 20,820,776 times
Reputation: 6534
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Umm...You do realize that the government also GAVE ITIN to illegal immigrants...

Also, seeing how we are talking about the children of these "criminals" (everyone has a broken a law, btw) these are types of people we need to improve our society. Those that have risen and give back to their communities and serve as role models. I don't understand how you people don't get that. More positive influences are needed in immigrant (be it illegal or otherwise) communities. Esp. if they are from lower income communities.
These are the types huh? The types who have learned their morals from people who live by cheating the system? People who feel that laws apply to everyone else? No I don't think so.
We have all broken laws but we are not all chronic or career criminals. These children have learned their ethics,morals,and code of conduct from their parents. In short I do question their character. Garbage in garbage out as the saying goes. It is no accident that so many children of criminals go on to become criminals themselves. They learn these behaviors from mom and dad.
No the Types that we need are folks who respect and obey our laws. The typse who are not looking for or feel entitled to special treatment. In short the legal types.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,293 posts, read 81,534,411 times
Reputation: 55458
one should be able to realize his dream, in his own country.
the problem is america refuses to enforce its own laws.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 39,511,674 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Umm...You do realize that the government also GAVE ITIN to illegal immigrants...

Also, seeing how we are talking about the children of these "criminals" (everyone has a broken a law, btw) these are types of people we need to improve our society. Those that have risen and give back to their communities and serve as role models. I don't understand how you people don't get that. More positive influences are needed in immigrant (be it illegal or otherwise) communities. Esp. if they are from lower income communities.
Deport them all (if here illegally) regardless.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:54 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,101,713 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
These are the types huh? The types who have learned their morals from people who live by cheating the system? People who feel that laws apply to everyone else? No I don't think so.
We have all broken laws but we are not all chronic or career criminals. These children have learned their ethics,morals,and code of conduct from their parents. In short I do question their character. Garbage in garbage out as the saying goes. It is no accident that so many children of criminals go on to become criminals themselves. They learn these behaviors from mom and dad.
No the Types that we need are folks who respect and obey our laws. The typse who are not looking for or feel entitled to special treatment. In short the legal types.
The apple does not fall far from the tree.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:49 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me
5,374 posts, read 4,571,120 times
Reputation: 5665
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Rather than looking at it as being punished, it's a matter of them having to deal with the consequences of their parents' actions. Put the blame back onto the criminal parents who chose to include children in their criminal activities.

Nope, it's a punishment...sorry, but that's what it is.

As for how it affects me, if there is a single cent of taxpayer money spent on their education, I'm affected. That also includes allowing illegal criminals to receive discounts on education, or government-backed subsidies or loans, which they are not entitled to. Go home and apply for student visas, then pay full fare.

So what you are saying is in reality it doesn't affect you...however, you feel the need to subscribe to a system will further create plight and blight. You'd rather see people go through a hassle for no real reason.


America F-YEAH!!!
'Punishment' is a penalty derived from one's own actions. The children in question are being subject to conditions specific to the actions of their law-breaking parents. I feel no moral problem in stuffing them all into the same shipping container and sending it south. Had the parents not chosen to break US law by sneaking into the country, the children would be raised in their own country. We owe them nothing and the responsibility conditions of those childrens' lives are squarely on the parents.

And it does affect me, directly. One consequence is that I cannot feel safe in sending my child to a public school where a high number of students are pulling resources towards finding bilingual teachers due to non-existant English abilities, where classes are taught in trailers due to overcrowding, where undocumented students from low income households are receiving meal subsidies that my tax dollars pay for, where on parents' night interpretors must be found to accomodate parents who cannot speak English. I could go on but the point is made. Every dollar spent educating the litters of these criminals is a dollar which takes away from giving my child the education I'm paying for through my taxes. Taking away the public school option is causing me to spend $10K per year to send my child to a private school where I know she is safe and being taught in a nuturing environment. Multiply that by 8 years of elementary school and so far the direct impact to me is $80,000 before she even gets to high school. Granted, I might opt to do this anyhow, but the conditions at our local school make sending her there a non-option for me. Personally I don't care if every illegal child hides all day at home under the bed in fear that Mama and Papa are about to be hauled off by Immigracion.

1) Go home!
2) Apply for a student visa.
3) Pay your own way. Every. Single. Penny.
4) Go back home and apply to reenter the US via legal means.

Everyone reading this who pays taxes is directly affected. Many, if not most, may not have the option to do for their children what I can. If denying illegals the right to higher education creates "plight and blight", then we need to make sure that plight and blight is sent back to where it originated. They're being "hassled" for a good reason - they're criminals!

Yes, America! F-YEAH!
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:51 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,567 posts, read 36,819,000 times
Reputation: 28491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
'Punishment' is a penalty derived from one's own actions. The children in question are being subject to conditions specific to the actions of their law-breaking parents. I feel no moral problem in stuffing them all into the same shipping container and sending it south. Had the parents not chosen to break US law by sneaking into the country, the children would be raised in their own country. We owe them nothing and the responsibility conditions of those childrens' lives are squarely on the parents.

And it does affect me, directly. One consequence is that I cannot feel safe in sending my child to a public school where a high number of students are pulling resources towards finding bilingual teachers due to non-existant English abilities, where classes are taught in trailers due to overcrowding, where undocumented students from low income households are receiving meal subsidies that my tax dollars pay for, where on parents' night interpretors must be found to accomodate parents who cannot speak English. I could go on but the point is made. Every dollar spent educating the litters of these criminals is a dollar which takes away from giving my child the education I'm paying for through my taxes. Taking away the public school option is causing me to spend $10K per year to send my child to a private school where I know she is safe and being taught in a nuturing environment. Multiply that by 8 years of elementary school and so far the direct impact to me is $80,000 before she even gets to high school. Granted, I might opt to do this anyhow, but the conditions at our local school make sending her there a non-option for me. Personally I don't care if every illegal child hides all day at home under the bed in fear that Mama and Papa are about to be hauled off by Immigracion.

1) Go home!
2) Apply for a student visa.
3) Pay your own way. Every. Single. Penny.
4) Go back home and apply to reenter the US via legal means.

Everyone reading this who pays taxes is directly affected. Many, if not most, may not have the option to do for their children what I can. If denying illegals the right to higher education creates "plight and blight", then we need to make sure that plight and blight is sent back to where it originated. They're being "hassled" for a good reason - they're criminals!

Yes, America! F-YEAH!
I agree with all of this. People really do not think about what the economic consequences of illegal immigration are.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:08 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,533,228 times
Reputation: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
'Punishment' is a penalty derived from one's own actions. The children in question are being subject to conditions specific to the actions of their law-breaking parents. I feel no moral problem in stuffing them all into the same shipping container and sending it south. Had the parents not chosen to break US law by sneaking into the country, the children would be raised in their own country. We owe them nothing and the responsibility conditions of those childrens' lives are squarely on the parents.

Thus, it's a punishment. The penalty is that they are not allowed to gain access to cheap education due to their parent's actions. You feel no "moral problem with stuffing them in the same shipping container and sending it south".

First off, roughly 20% of illegal immigrants aren't from the "south". The second largest group is "west" of followed by "north" and then "east". Secondly, you have no problem treating them like freight. There people. This the part I don't understand. Regardless of how they came here, they are people. Not "aliens" (though originally mean the same as immigrants, denotes how people dehumanize illegal immigrants...or rather undocumented immigrants). Thirdly, those obtaining a college education to serve as role models and show that it is possible with hard work to succeed is better than simply not allowing them an education. They would (and do) contribute back to the communities they are from. They help in the inner city, poor rural areas. They serve to inspire those to pursue their dreams. But, you'd rather waste money and deport them all in "shipping containers". It's illogical at best.

And it does affect me, directly. One consequence is that I cannot feel safe in sending my child to a public school where a high number of students are pulling resources towards finding bilingual teachers due to non-existant English abilities, where classes are taught in trailers due to overcrowding, where undocumented students from low income households are receiving meal subsidies that my tax dollars pay for, where on parents' night interpretors must be found to accomodate parents who cannot speak English. I could go on but the point is made. Every dollar spent educating the litters of these criminals is a dollar which takes away from giving my child the education I'm paying for through my taxes. Taking away the public school option is causing me to spend $10K per year to send my child to a private school where I know she is safe and being taught in a nuturing environment. Multiply that by 8 years of elementary school and so far the direct impact to me is $80,000 before she even gets to high school. Granted, I might opt to do this anyhow, but the conditions at our local school make sending her there a non-option for me. Personally I don't care if every illegal child hides all day at home under the bed in fear that Mama and Papa are about to be hauled off by Immigracion.

How the F U C K does it directly affect you? I'll tell you...it doesn't. Pulling resources for billingual education? Interesting since billingual education is such a small percentage of the total budget. Are you sure it's not poor district planning (many districts over run on operation costs)? Poor district investments? (many inland districts bought school site lands and now are selling at a loss). Like most people, you probably didn't think about those things. You probably said "oh, it's the immigrants". It's a shame in this nation that people don't take the time to realize what's going on. Also, putting your children in private school was a choice. I went to public school and turned out fine. In fact, I went to an inner city school. The school had IB (a lot of public schools have IB or AP...I was in GATE at a public school, plus my parents tutored me during the summer. I got better grades than neighbors that went the private school route. 4.45 GPA, full IB diploma). If you are complaining about spending money on tuition for private schooling, that's not the fault of illegal immigrants. That's your perogative.

Let me get this straight, you'd rather not educate the poor undocumented immigrants and create an underclass that has a higher risk of reliance on welfare?

1) Go home!
2) Apply for a student visa.
3) Pay your own way. Every. Single. Penny.
4) Go back home and apply to reenter the US via legal means.

1) Drop your life, redesign your plans
2) Hope that there are spots
3) Realize that you are a cog in a machine that creates a highly educated, yet highly indebted class of people (I'm 55k in the hole)
4) Appease *******s that hate those that are different from them

Everyone reading this who pays taxes is directly affected. Many, if not most, may not have the option to do for their children what I can. If denying illegals the right to higher education creates "plight and blight", then we need to make sure that plight and blight is sent back to where it originated. They're being "hassled" for a good reason - they're criminals!

I pay taxes. My parent's pay taxes. My brother and sister in law pays taxes. My parents were making high 5 figures to six figures (90k-110k depending on whether my dad worked summers)...brother is making 150-200k. We feel that it's our part in society to aid those that are less fortunate in creating a better society.

Yes, America! F-YEAH!

You exemplify all that America should strive not to be. We should realize our problems and try to fix them, not ship it away. They are here now, and the problem needs a long term solution. To you, choosing to pay for private school is a problem directly due from illegal immigration and not out of your skewed belief. The illogic, ignorance, and lack of compassion is not what America should stand for.
Wow
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