Why Today's Immigrants do not assimilate.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by zacatecana

There is no way of telling the difference between a legal and illegal immigrant by simply looking at them. NO WAY. I know many who are legal and dont have the description you gave.

There are ways -- you yourself seem to know who is legal and who isn't in your part of the country and you aren't the only one who can tell.

I watched one time when two Mexican teenagers were walking up the street, dressed like typical American kids - t-shirts with slogans in English, jeans, nikes. The border patrol was also watching them -- and these were hispanic border agents, in a hispanic area of the country - near the border. The kids were dressed as American as they could dress but there was a difference.

These kids reached a corner and pulled out limes to sell to the passing traffic and the border patrol went into action. The kids looked puzzled as to why the border patrol agents -- again hispanic agents "knew".

When 15 men are living in one apartment, or 4 or 5 families in a one family house and no one speaks English, that's a very good clue they are illegals.

It's no different from people living in the north knowing which of their neighbors moved up from Alabama. Or people in Alabama "spotting" a Yankee -- and they do.

Not only that, most Mexicans can distinguish a Mexican from a Colombian or Peruvian. Many Mexicans can distinguish between someone from Sonora versus Chiapas.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

You are changing the argument. There is nothing wrong with WASP culture but why does WASP culture have to be embraced by every single person in this country? WASP culture is not synonymous with American culture and unfortunately many on this thread don't get that. WASP culture is a part of American culture but American culture isn't limited to that. I have no problem with WASP culture. I'm a WASP myself but I don't decry other cultures for being un-American or not assimilating. And this thread isn't about illegals. It's about a lack of assimilation. Many legal CITIZENS or LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are accused of failing to assimilate ie become WASPS and that is wrong and un-American. This assimilation argument is just a front to justify xenophobia. This argument isn't limited to illegals. I've heard this same argument made in regard to doctors, lawyers, and engineers who are of a foreign background who speak and read English but because they aren't Christian and don't do everything that WASPS engage in, then they get accused of failing to assimilate. That tells me this has less to do with speaking and reading English and everything to do with old fashioned racism from good ole boys who fear what they don't understand.

I'm not a WASP, but I think assimilation means learning and appreciating what made the USA a great nation in the first place and not coming here out of greed for money only but with a goal of embracing the spirit of America, and that means wanting to learn how this country came to be, the values of the founding fathers, what shaped those values.

That also requires losing the fear of "WASP" as that is the culture we inherited as Americans, it's why we are not like Mexico exactly, or like Haiti, or Italy. You don't have to be a WASP to appreciate the work ethic, the desire for freedom, the individualistic nature of our culture.

Assimilation means giving up the old country ways and adapting to the new country -- after all it doesn't matter where we are from but where we are going.

If someone wishes to live just like they did back in the old country, then the old country should be the place for them, there is no reason to come here if you aren't willing to adapt in any way and have no desire to expand their minds.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by malamute

I'm not a WASP, but I think assimilation means learning and appreciating what made the USA a great nation in the first place and not coming here out of greed for money only but with a goal of embracing the spirit of America, and that means wanting to learn how this country came to be, the values of the founding fathers, what shaped those values.

That also requires losing the fear of "WASP" as that is the culture we inherited as Americans, it's why we are not like Mexico exactly, or like Haiti, or Italy. You don't have to be a WASP to appreciate the work ethic, the desire for freedom, the individualistic nature of our culture.

Assimilation means giving up the old country ways and adapting to the new country -- after all it doesn't matter where we are from but where we are going.

If someone wishes to live just like they did back in the old country, then the old country should be the place for them, there is no reason to come here if you aren't willing to adapt in any way and have no desire to expand their minds.

1. Many of the practices and behaviors you see in this country are actually practices from the old country. You just aren't aware of it. They have become a part of this culture. The culture that people are calling "American culture" is actually comprised of several foreign cultures that have melded. American culture is constantly evolving and changing as more foreign cultures contribute to it.

2. I think you take it for granted how much immigrants assimilate. The reason you take it for granted is because you don't know how they live in their countries and haven't spent any considerable amount of time in a foreign country. It's just your false impression that they aren't assimilating. You assume they live just like they did in the old country and they don't.

3. You can't survive in this country without adapting and "assimilating" It's impossible. Whether you are talking about paying taxes, driving, communicating with the public, working etc. I'm referring to people who are here legally.

4. Assimilation for people means trivial things although they don't want to admit that because it makes them look like idiots. I've heard people ridicule those with accents even though they are speaking English. I've heard people ridiculing Sikhs for wearing turbans and not shaving.

5. Immigrants don't really seem to have a problem with you. They don't whine about you not learning their culture or taking the effort to learn about them. If you have such a problem with immigrants not assimilating then perhaps you should take the first step and learn about their culture.

6. People did not come to this country because they wanted to "learn and appreciate what made this country a great nation" They came here for a better life aka MONEY. And this applies to the Irish and other large immigrant groups that helped form the backbone of this country. I don't see you criticizing them. I guess these criticism only apply to Mexicans, Asians and Africans by some sheer coincidence right?

[malamute]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

1. Many of the practices and behaviors you see in this country are actually practices from the old country. You just aren't aware of it. They have become a part of this culture. The culture that people are calling "American culture" is actually comprised of several foreign cultures that have melded. American culture is constantly evolving and changing as more foreign cultures contribute to it.

That's the politically correct "salad bowl" approach to what American culture is. The thing is, American culture did derive from British culture, just like the cultures of countries like Canada, Australia, Barbados, and other countries with a high standard of living and strong middle class.

No good reason at all to throw that all away.

2. I think you take it for granted how much immigrants assimilate. The reason you take it for granted is because you don't know how they live in their countries and haven't spent any considerable amount of time in a foreign country. It's just your false impression that they aren't assimilating. You assume they live just like they did in the old country and they don't.

I've spent considerable time in a foreign country and live in a part of the USA where English is no longer the primary language. I know many people who have lived here in the USA for 20, 30, 40 year and have failed to learn the language. They may get food stamps, Medicaid, or USA minimum wages or illegal wages -- but otherwise they are living no differently than they lived back home.

3. You can't survive in this country without adapting and "assimilating" It's impossible. Whether you are talking about paying taxes, driving, communicating with the public, working etc. I'm referring to people who are here legally.

Sure you can. Illegals almost never file an IRS form, I'm also pretty sure tax forms are available in Spanish if not other foreign languages. People in other countries drive cars -- or they drive them when they get here. It's not hard, you get a car, you put the key in -- voila - you're driving. No - you don't communicate with the American public but there's no need to communicate in English anymore. As far as people here legally - it's not much different, they can live their lives in Spanish very easily. Have you been to a Walmart around here lately? The announcements are in Spanish, the signs are in Spanish. No need to learn English ever.

4. Assimilation for people means trivial things although they don't want to admit that because it makes them look like idiots. I've heard people ridicule those with accents even though they are speaking English. I've heard people ridiculing Sikhs for wearing turbans and not shaving.

Assimilation is not a trivial thing. It means becoming part of the American people, leaving not just the old country but the old ways and adapting to the new country. Otherwise -- why come? Immigration should not just be all only about money, it should be about having an appreciation for the new country, it's people, it's culture and history. Non-assimiliation results in Balkanization or a tribalism where each group sticks together.

5. Immigrants don't really seem to have a problem with you. They don't whine about you not learning their culture or taking the effort to learn about them. If you have such a problem with immigrants not assimilating then perhaps you should take the first step and learn about their culture.

Sure they do -- because I believe that immigration should be limited, balanced, fair and legal. Yes, many immigrants today do expect the American people to learn their language -- there's a thread on here by one who suggests English be dropped and all Americans be required to learn Spanish as the new common language. I hear that all the time -- that Americans must learn Spanish now to accomodate the immigrants because the immigrants shouldn't have to learn English.

6. People did not come to this country because they wanted to "learn and appreciate what made this country a great nation" They came here for a better life aka MONEY. And this applies to the Irish and other large immigrant groups that helped form the backbone of this country. I don't see you criticizing them. I guess these criticism only apply to Mexicans, Asians and Africans by some sheer coincidence right?

Actually many immigrants of the past left the easier life they had in Europe for the freedom they had here. Life in this country was not all easy money at one time, it was difficult. But -- also the past is the past. Massive "immigration" 300 years ago also meant displacing the Indians, the Indians can tell you what happens when people come by the millions but have no intention of assimilating or learning the existing language. Massive immigration in the past also meant putting the Indians on reservations or forcing them off their lands.

As far as "Mexicans, Asians, Africans", I think it's time to end the massive group immigration and reform immigration so that it's about individuals coming here, not entire nations. Individuals who have a desire to be American, who can be self-reliant, learn the language of this country and so on should have an opportunity to do so.

[Yac]

This thread has been created by a previously banned member, I can see he succeeded in making everyone fight yet again...
Closed.
Yac.