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The problem is that you translate objection and resentment of illegal aliens to "hate". And that word is used to place a very negative and nasty emotion on the opposing side when objection and resentment are more appropriate discriptions of how we feel. This of course is done on purpose to demonize those you disagree with. It is a very transparent, devious and dishonest tactic.
What racism? Illegals are from different races. Yes, Mexicans get discussed more often for the obvious reason. They are the overwhelming majority illegally in this country. Does that equate to racism? I don't think so. What xenophobia? How can we possibly have a fear of strangers when this country has been comprised of many different ethnic groups and nationalities since its founding? Hate, racism, xenophobia are all words used to demonize the anti-illegal immigration movement. Most of us do not fit that bill including most in this forum.
You have eloquently spoken on behalf of most of us opposing illegal immigration. Sorry I can’t rep you.
I am against illegal immigration 100% but I don't carry any type of hate towards them.
As far as the crime, many people mentioned on this forum that all illegal immigrants are criminals & I think that this is not true.
I don't think it's right that a whole group of individuals should be judged the same based on the actions of a few bad seeds in their group.
And you get it! You are one of the few. I am also 100% against illegal immigration. I don't believe in amnesty. However, I don't hate illegals or have resentment toward them. But then again I'm not a racist nor do I harbor xenophobic sentiment.
The problem is that you translate objection and resentment of illegal aliens to "hate". And that word is used to place a very negative and nasty emotion on the opposing side when objection and resentment are more appropriate discriptions of how we feel. This of course is done on purpose to demonize those you disagree with. It is a very transparent, devious and dishonest tactic.
What racism? Illegals are from different races. Yes, Mexicans get discussed more often for the obvious reason. They are the overwhelming majority illegally in this country. Does that equate to racism? I don't think so. What xenophobia? How can we possibly have a fear of strangers when this country has been comprised of many different ethnic groups and nationalities since its founding? Hate, racism, xenophobia are all words used to demonize the anti-illegal immigration movement. Most of us do not fit that bill including most in this forum.
How is "resentment" different than hate? It's a dishonest argument that is being used to mask genuine hate. In an attempt to be more acceptable, you are trying to argue that you resent them but don't hate them. That is a very weak argument. The Xenophobia is based on the fact that Mexicans often don't speak English, and have a different culture. A lot of Americans see that as a threat to their way of life and hence oppose it. That is classic xenophobia. That's not a difficult concept to understand.
Why you ask? Because these people are not coming here to hurt anyone. Their intent isn't to prevent Americans from getting a job. They are trying to do what any human being in their situation would do. It's easy to call them criminals when you aren't in their situation. Just be thankful you were not born in Mexico to a poor family. How do you fault anyone for that? Again, protect and defend the border but there is no need for the resentment.
If you are an American then you understand that we stand for what is better. We act above petty resentment and hate. As an American, you should understand it is your job to understand the human nature of this predicament while still mandating tough laws and enforcement. Your "resentment" is essentially a PC term for hate and you know it. That is not American! My duty as an American is to protect the borders and protect our jobs. It's not to show resentment toward a group of people. And I do have sympathy for those who have lost jobs and are unemployed. Just because I don't show resentment toward illegals, it doesn't mean I don't have sympathy toward my fellow Americans. Like I said, displaying "resentment" is not American nor is it okay.
And if you want to inspire and recruit more people to your cause, then you need to change your tone and approach. My way will get a lot more supporters than you justifying hate...oh sorry.."resentment" toward illegals. All that will do is push good people away from your cause because you've become obsessed with resentment rather than the issue of preventing illegal immigrants from entering this country.
Doesn't matter what their intent is, it is the outcome that counts. They know that they are breaking our immigration laws from the get go....strike one! The outcome/results of millions of illegal aliens here has been discussed in here over and over so you already know what the negativities are. No, I would not do what they did. Speak for yourself!
There you go with your "hate" BS again! It is objection and resentment, not hate. They have different meanings. Objection and resentment is quite justified. Having those emotions is not American? Where is that written in our constitution?
It is your side that needs to change your tone. Quit calling Americans opposed to illegal immigration and who resent those who violate our borders all kinds of nasty names. Everytime we endorse measures to secure our borders, punish the employers and the workers and take away incentives for them to come here we get called racists by your side so what do you mean we don't discuss measures to keep illegals out of our country?
Doesn't matter what their intent is, it is the outcome that counts. They know that they are breaking our immigration laws from the get go....strike one! The outcome/results of millions of illegal aliens here has been discussed in here over and over so you already know what the negativities are. No, I would not do what they did. Speak for yourself!
There you go with your "hate" BS again! It is objection and resentment, not hate. They have different meanings. Objection and resentment is quite justified. Having those emotions is not American? Where is that written in our constitution?
It is your side that needs to change your tone. Quit calling Americans opposed to illegal immigration and who resent those who violate our borders all kinds of nasty names. Everytime we endorse measures to secure our borders, punish the employers and the workers and take away incentives for them to come here we get called racists by your side so what do you mean we don't discuss measures to keep illegals out of our country?
It doesn't matter what their intent is? Have you ever read Oliver Twist? People in France were stealing bread because they were starving. Their intent doesn't count? My god, when did you lose your soul?
Again, I agree with all those measures you stated. I regularly vote and approve of those laws in Arizona including punishing companies who hire ilegals. I do my job but I don't harbor hate or resentment. That is not American. You simply don't get it! I'm on your side, I'm just not filled with hate like you.
How is "resentment" different than hate? It's a dishonest argument that is being used to mask genuine hate. In an attempt to be more acceptable, you are trying to argue that you resent them but don't hate them. That is a very weak argument. The Xenophobia is based on the fact that Mexicans often don't speak English, and have a different culture. A lot of Americans see that as a threat to their way of life and hence oppose it. That is classic xenophobia. That's not a difficult concept to understand.
Maybe you should look up the words resentment and hate so you will know the difference between those two words. Where is your proof that resentment is being used to mask hate? You mention Mexicans, are you talking about the legal or the illegal kind? Most Americans of Mexican ancestry do speak English. As for the illegal kind of course most probably don't speak English but that isn't our primary objection to them. It is their violation of our immigration laws for God's sake!
How is opposing illegals, Mexican or otherwise a threat to an American's way of life? As I said, xenophobia is a fear of strangers. How can that be when we are the most racially diverse country in the world? Why do you keep coming back with the same arguments when I have already addressed all of your remarks with the truth?
Last edited by chicagonut; 11-18-2009 at 09:01 AM..
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.
The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.
I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
As an American Citizen living abroad, Mexico, things should be looked at a little differently. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE MEXICAN. With that said, I read this and just had to get my $.02 in. I don't know why there is a generalization that all illegal immigrants are Mexican. Most of them come from Guatemala and other southern countries. We have the same problem as you guys do in the states, illegal immigrants. The Mexicans, to tell you the truth, are pretty upset about this. But it seems like the American government and people have just generalized this issue as being Mexican and causing most Americans to dislike Mexicans as a population due to the fact that people cross the Mexican/American border and therefore must be Mexican. Did I forget to mention that they speak Spanish too? More reason being that they must be Mexican.
Let me enlighten you a little bit, I have been here for 12 years. Not once have I been rejected health care or had to pay for it unless I decided to go to a private doctor. We get free medicine, dental and cheap schools. We keep our money in our pocket and don't have to give all of it to the government through taxes, we get way more free stuff than the Americans could even fathom. My little brother just came down to live with me as we don't really have a lot of family left in the states and he is here to study. They didn't put up any protest when he applied and he goes to a good school and pays a total of get this $50.00 a month. He doesn't have to pay out of state or out of town higher prices. Everyone is treated the same. If he did this in the states he would be paying over $25,000 a year. yes a year.
Now let me give you a little history, Most of the Mexicans that do go to the States are the ones who live in Ranch towns or way down south where there is no industry. Most are good honest people just struggling through life as you and I. On the other hand, the Mexicans in the city, like where I live, are mostly RICH. When I say rich, they don't whip out their credit card to go buy a Mercedes, they go pay CASH. So tell me where the poverty is? Most Mexicans don't have credit card bills or owe money on their homes. This country has very little internal debt as opposed to the u.s. that everyone owes everything. That's my $.02 I hope I have enlightened at least one person.
It doesn't matter what their intent is? Have you ever read Oliver Twist? People in France were stealing bread because they were starving. Their intent doesn't count? My god, when did you lose your soul?
Again, I agree with all those measures you stated. I regularly vote and approve of those laws in Arizona including punishing companies who hire ilegals. I do my job but I don't harbor hate or resentment. That is not American. You simply don't get it! I'm on your side, I'm just not filled with hate like you.
For the most part they aren't starving. They just know they can have it bettter here. Did you lose your sense of rule of law and that there is a legal way to come here?
You are entitled to your misplaced emotions but don't go around calling Americans haters and racists just because they oppose illegal immigration. How many times are you going to do that in this forum? It is insulting and consider your post reported to the moderator for calling me a hater.
As an American Citizen living abroad, Mexico, things should be looked at a little differently. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE MEXICAN. With that said, I read this and just had to get my $.02 in. I don't know why there is a generalization that all illegal immigrants are Mexican. Most of them come from Guatemala and other southern countries. We have the same problem as you guys do in the states, illegal immigrants. The Mexicans, to tell you the truth, are pretty upset about this. But it seems like the American government and people have just generalized this issue as being Mexican and causing most Americans to dislike Mexicans as a population due to the fact that people cross the Mexican/American border and therefore must be Mexican. Did I forget to mention that they speak Spanish too? More reason being that they must be Mexican.
Let me enlighten you a little bit, I have been here for 12 years. Not once have I been rejected health care or had to pay for it unless I decided to go to a private doctor. We get free medicine, dental and cheap schools. We keep our money in our pocket and don't have to give all of it to the government through taxes, we get way more free stuff than the Americans could even fathom. My little brother just came down to live with me as we don't really have a lot of family left in the states and he is here to study. They didn't put up any protest when he applied and he goes to a good school and pays a total of get this $50.00 a month. He doesn't have to pay out of state or out of town higher prices. Everyone is treated the same. If he did this in the states he would be paying over $25,000 a year. yes a year.
Now let me give you a little history, Most of the Mexicans that do go to the States are the ones who live in Ranch towns or way down south where there is no industry. Most are good honest people just struggling through life as you and I. On the other hand, the Mexicans in the city, like where I live, are mostly RICH. When I say rich, they don't whip out their credit card to go buy a Mercedes, they go pay CASH. So tell me where the poverty is? Most Mexicans don't have credit card bills or owe money on their homes. This country has very little internal debt as opposed to the u.s. that everyone owes everything. That's my $.02 I hope I have enlightened at least one person.
If Mexico has gotten roped into being the face of illegal immigration it is because of Mexico's loud opinions on how the US should treat illegals. It is because of all the Mexican consulars built for the sole purpose of making life easier for their citizens in the US illegally.
You are correct that Mexico has a lot of wealth - too bad that doesn't translate into a thriving middle class. But because of this class disparity or perhaps in order to keep it - Mexico has decided the best way to deal with their poor and uneducated is to export them to the US. I'm afraid that the wealthy in Mexico may just have to deal with their own class and social disparities from now on instead of leaving it to the wicked and racist US.
Maybe you should look up the words resentment and hate so you will know the difference between those two words. Where is your proof that resentment is being used to mask hate? You mention Mexicans, are you talking about the legal or the illegal kind? Most Americans of Mexican ancestry do speak English. As for the illegal kind of course most probably don't speak English but that isn't our primary objection to them. It is their violation of our immigration laws for God's sake!
How is opposing illegals, Mexican or otherwise a threat to an American's way of life? As I said, xenophobia is a fear of strangers. How can that be when we are the most racially diverse country in the wordl? Why do you keep coming back with the same arguments when I have already addressed all of your remarks with the truth?
I know the difference between those two words but I just don't believe you. I think you are being dishonest and not forthcoming with your feelings. It's obvious you hate illegals. You see them as criminals. Yes, technically they are criminals but I think any reasonable person can distinguish between an illegal immigrant coming here to earn enough money to support his family versus a murderer or someone with malintent.
Xenophobia is specifically a fear of foreigners. And one reason why people like you resent illegals is because of the paranoid fear that an overwhelming majority of them will somehow change our American way of life. It goes beyond just borders. If these people were British, there would be much less resentment because they would have an easier time assimilating.
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