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I thought I would add that my friend that got his 2 year in degree in industrial technology is now a coal miner, not working in anything related to what he studied.
If I could live adequately in St. Louis on my pension, I'd move there in a heartbeat. However, it's not a perfect world. My inherited home in Metropolis, is worth about a down payment for a similar property in a large urban area. The alternative of leaving here for the city involves reentering the work force, and frankly I'd rather put up with the hillbillies than deal with the BS in the modern work place.
It's the simple minded residents that affect me. Not necessarily low in intelligence, but a very limited view of the world, and a S. IL bias on how things work. The tendency to think that this area is the center of the universe, and the rest of the world is messed up. Truth is, a 9/11 could occur here, and other than those that lost loved ones, no one else would care. This area has little social or economic impact on the world as a whole.
You have summed up very nicely the reason my children, who are So IL natives chose to leave the area after high school, and have no plans to visit, let alone move back.
Wouldn't this sentence be just as "true" with just a slight modification?
"Not necessarily low in intelligence, but a very limited view of the world, and a "Big City" bias on how things work. The tendency to think that this area is the center of the universe, and the rest of the world is messed up".
I really have to disagree with this statement: "Truth is, a 9/11 could occur here, and other than those that lost loved ones, no one else would care." Truth is, many service members are from rural America. I was one of them, many years ago, and very few of us enlisted solely for economic reasons.
I've got a bone to pick about this one, too. "This area has little social or economic impact on the world as a whole" - Hmmm, those stores where you buy your food might have some pretty empty shelves if it weren't for rural America.
Let's not forget that "downstate" is also the home of the University of Illinois, ranked as one of the top 10 public universities in the United States. The university campus hosts the site of the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA), which created Mosaic, the first graphical Web browser, the foundation upon which Microsoft Internet Explorer is based, the Apache HTTP server, and NCSA Telnet. The university is currently partnering with IBM and the National Science Foundation to build the world's fastest supercomputer. This supercomputer, named "Blue Waters," will be capable of performing one quadrillion calculations per second. This will make Blue Waters three times faster than today's fastest supercomputer.
As for social impact, I suppose that's pretty much a matter of taste. I, for one, am not
a big Opra fan but I doubt if a majority of the population of Chicago, or New York, or Las Angeles is, either.
It's fine to take pride in where you live but it doesn't need to come by bashing and deriding others.
Wouldn't this sentence be just as "true" with just a slight modification?
"Not necessarily low in intelligence, but a very limited view of the world, and a "Big City" bias on how things work. The tendency to think that this area is the center of the universe, and the rest of the world is messed up".
I really have to disagree with this statement: "Truth is, a 9/11 could occur here, and other than those that lost loved ones, no one else would care." Truth is, many service members are from rural America. I was one of them, many years ago, and very few of us enlisted solely for economic reasons.
I've got a bone to pick about this one, too. "This area has little social or economic impact on the world as a whole" - Hmmm, those stores where you buy your food might have some pretty empty shelves if it weren't for rural America.
Let's not forget that "downstate" is also the home of the University of Illinois, ranked as one of the top 10 public universities in the United States. The university campus hosts the site of the National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA), which created Mosaic, the first graphical Web browser, the foundation upon which Microsoft Internet Explorer is based, the Apache HTTP server, and NCSA Telnet. The university is currently partnering with IBM and the National Science Foundation to build the world's fastest supercomputer. This supercomputer, named "Blue Waters," will be capable of performing one quadrillion calculations per second. This will make Blue Waters three times faster than today's fastest supercomputer.
As for social impact, I suppose that's pretty much a matter of taste. I, for one, am not
a big Opra fan but I doubt if a majority of the population of Chicago, or New York, or Las Angeles is, either.
It's fine to take pride in where you live but it doesn't need to come by bashing and deriding others.
You're missing my point on several issues. First of all, I'm not some north shore Chicago liberal trolling in the downstate forum. My family goes back to the mid-1800's in Massac County, and helped to settle this part of the state. I know the history of this region. The potential of what could have been, but isn't.
Champaign, the U of I, is central IL. It's not southern, unless you're a geographically challenged Chicagolander. But that's another issue. I'm speaking generally of the area south of I-64, and specifically the area south of Route 13. If you knew this area, you would know that there is not enough farming here to fill any local grocery shelves.
Yes, "city folk" have their own limited perspective. But do to the multicultural nature of large urban areas, and the access to a more varied life experience, their perspective most likely has a larger world view.
No individuals have been bashed here. I'm speaking of the local culture collectively.
It's strictly a personel observation, from someone who spent a significant number of years living in other parts of the world.
The service member comment is particularly interesting, being I mentioned earlier in the thread I'm retired military.
I think the issue is that you're very pro rural areas, and very anti-big city. Which is fine. I try to maintain a balance between the two. Being that this forum has people, who are looking to perhaps relocate to this area, it is important to relate the situation as it is. The social norms that most people are accustomed to, don't apply to this region in many instances. School districts, transportation, etc. are likely different from one's prior experiences.
The rivers, Shawnee National Forest, and other natural amenities are very nice. The climate is better than alot of places too. But if you come here without a secure offer of employment and/or have kids of school age, you are jeopardizing your future, and your children's potential.
If one doesn't have to live on the local economy, and doesn't have children of school age, they might like it here.
BLS2753
It's late and we can discuss later but FWIW, I was responding to Sunshine Girl's comments that started with, "It's the simple minded residents that affect me". Sounded like "bashing" to me =|
People can debate where southern Illinois begins but if the U of I Champaign doesn't count, I've always considered SIU to be a quality school.
I'm not particularly anti-big city and I don't mind visiting them, I just wouldn't want to live in one anymore. Been there, done that and I truly do prefer living off the paved roads, on an acreage out in the boondocks.
"...and/or have kids of school age, you are jeopardizing your future, and your children's potential."
Can you, or anyone who agrees/disagrees elaborate on this please?
I have always lived in an urban area, and am moving to Southern IL in a few months.
Thank you!
In brief:
1. There's little ability to "shop for a school district" like there is in more populous areas. You can't insulate your child from "bad kids" like people do in the cities or suburbs. The kids from the new upscale subdivision and the rundown trailer park will all go to the same schools. And most likely, the trailer parkers will outnumber the subdivisioners by a sizable margin.
2. The curriculum is limited at the high school level. One, maybe two, foreign language offerings. No math above trigonometry. No advanced placement classes in many instances.
3. Limited extracurricular activities. If your kid is a swimmer, field hockey player, ice hockey player, soccer player, gymnast, etc. They are SOL once they move here. Throw in actor too, as many high schools don't have drama departments. If they're girls they better be cheerleaders, basketball, or softball players. Boys, basketball or football players.
4. Competition in both academics and athletics is weak. Your child can excel in these small school districts, only to find out later they are ordinary. Very few students are accepted to elite universities. Athletic scholarships to big time college programs are few. Most recruiters from major conferences don't even scout here.
5. I'm familiar with 3 school districts in this part of the state, and close to 50 years of observation. I'll give a brief summation of what usually occurs with high acheiving students here.:
High school class size, generally around 150.
Top 75, earmarked for college.
Less than 5 usually are accepted to the University of Illinois.
Perhaps another 20 to SIU Carbondale.
Out of those 25, probably half fail to keep up with the faster academic
pace, and the ability to assimilate well with students from the more
progressive areas of the state.
The remaining 50 or so students in the top half, go to the local
community college. Boys learn a trade in the industrial arts, girls
generally achieve some low level certification in a healthcare vocation.
The bottom half of the class, the remaining 75, most often receive no
further post secondary education.
In close to a half a century, I have known 2 students accepted to elite
private universities.
One football player to the U. of Missouri, where he road the bench for 4
years.
Local school districts publish detailed statistics in the local newspaper, so I don't have to be an insider to know these things. Plus, in small towns, a major source of gossip is the success or failure of everyone's children.
Disclaimer: This information and opinion relates to school districts in towns of 15,000 population or less, south of I-64, and outside the metro east area of St. Louis. It does not include Champaign, Decatur, Peoria, Springfield, etc. which I don't consider southern Illinois.
1. There's little ability to "shop for a school district" like there is in more populous areas. You can't insulate your child from "bad kids" like people do in the cities or suburbs. The kids from the new upscale subdivision and the rundown trailer park will all go to the same schools. And most likely, the trailer parkers will outnumber the subdivisioners by a sizable margin. Yep.
2. The curriculum is limited at the high school level. One, maybe two, foreign language offerings. No math above trigonometry. No advanced placement classes in many instances. Yep.
3. Limited extracurricular activities. If your kid is a swimmer, field hockey player, ice hockey player, soccer player, gymnast, etc. They are SOL once they move here. Throw in actor too, as many high schools don't have drama departments. If they're girls they better be cheerleaders, basketball, or softball players. Boys, basketball or football players. Yep.
4. Competition in both academics and athletics is weak. Your child can excel in these small school districts, only to find out later they are ordinary. Very few students are accepted to elite universities. Athletic scholarships to big time college programs are few. Most recruiters from major conferences don't even scout here. Yep.
5. I'm familiar with 3 school districts in this part of the state, and close to 50 years of observation. I'll give a brief summation of what usually occurs with high acheiving students here.: Yep.
High school class size, generally around 150.
Top 75, earmarked for college. Yep.
Less than 5 usually are accepted to the University of Illinois. Yep.
Perhaps another 20 to SIU Carbondale. Yep.
Out of those 25, probably half fail to keep up with the faster academic
pace, and the ability to assimilate well with students from the more
progressive areas of the state. Yep.
The remaining 50 or so students in the top half, go to the local
community college. Boys learn a trade in the industrial arts, girls
generally achieve some low level certification in a healthcare vocation.
v
The bottom half of the class, the remaining 75, most often receive no
further post secondary education. Yep.
In close to a half a century, I have known 2 students accepted to elite
private universities. Yep.
One football player to the U. of Missouri, where he road the bench for 4
years. Yep.
Local school districts publish detailed statistics in the local newspaper, so I don't have to be an insider to know these things. Plus, in small towns, a major source of gossip is the success or failure of everyone's children. Yep.
Disclaimer: This information and opinion relates to school districts in towns of 15,000 population or less, south of I-64, and outside the metro east area of St. Louis. It does not include Champaign, Decatur, Peoria, Springfield, etc. which I don't consider southern Illinois.
At least consider the metro-east burbs of
St. Louis. O'Fallon, Fairview Heights, etc. Southern Illinois has been at a standstill for at least 22 years (my lifetime), with an exception of Marion. Marion would be by far the best place to send your kids to school.
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