CC Bill one step closer to approval (Chicago: neighborhood, dangerous)

[Beachgoer44]

Originally Posted by linicx

i grew up with guns in the house. I've been to collectors shows. I've fired many. I think the original Colt .44 Peacemaker is the prettiest gun I ever handled. They are all killing machines. CC or not, I personally don't see how a single 12 round clip is any defense against a 100 round semi-auto.

The problem isn't cowardice. The problem is the courts. What we are doing is not working. The little thugs need to be rounded up and sent to Afganistan, Greenland, South Korean, to boot camp and a 3 year tour. We'll see how fast the little piggys squeal. By the time it's argued in the courts and SCOTUS hands down an opinion they will all be back home, and their little brothers will be doing a tour.

Amen, Amen, and Amen!

I grew up around guns, we have guns in our house..when we lived in Florida my husband had a CC permit...he's law enforcement now, so to an issue...we have a teenage son, that has been taught gun safety since he was old enough to walk...it is all about being RESPONSIBLE....

[linicx]

When he was not home, or not doing something with the guns, the ammo and guns were behind locked doors until the day he died. He had the only keys even though we were middle age adults.

I'll bet a nickel that if you thought your child had emotional issues he would not have access to any guns or ammo in your house.

Originally Posted by Beachgoer44

Amen, Amen, and Amen!

I grew up around guns, we have guns in our house..when we lived in Florida my husband had a CC permit...he's law enforcement now, so to an issue...we have a teenage son, that has been taught gun safety since he was old enough to walk...it is all about being RESPONSIBLE....

[Beachgoer44]

Originally Posted by linicx

I'll bet a nickel that if you thought your child had emotional issues he would not have access to any guns or ammo in your house.

Yes, if our son had emotional and/or maturity issues, he would not have access. Since he was taught at a very young age about gun safety, we don't have to deal with any curiosity, and the fact that they are locked up, unless he and his dad are cleaning them or shooting targets, limits his access if he were to get curious.

CC may not prevent crime, but I seriously doubt it increases it too. Itchy trigger individuals have access, regardless. FOID doesn't prevent someone who is easily spooked from having a weapon in their home, and a lot of people carry already without the CC. People who travel roadways with their families should be able to carry. Unfortunately, a flat tire can make people easy targets. That is just a mild example.

I do agree that our legislators have other serious issues to deal with..so, just pass this already and move on to issues related to our economy.

[pnwmdk]

Originally Posted by Army_Guy

I hope it happens for you guys. 49 states have done it and I cannot recall a shootout amongst CC holders in any of those 49 states. Why IL has been so opposed to it for so long is a mystery. Of course, I read Quinn's comments about public safety, yada, yada, yada. If that's the case, why has it worked in 49 other states? Is he saying that IL citizens aren't trustworthy?

I hope it passes and when it does and there are no changes in crime, maybe the attitude in Crook County will change towards guns.

Look at every state that recently ( past 2 decades) either created a shall issue concealed carry, or made theirs into a shall issue, and you can find a statistically correlated drop in crime. In my state, every urban and metro area saw double digit percentage drops in violent crime in just one year.

Not only will crime decrease, it will do so dramatically. The only "public safety" issue is that concealed carry makes the public safer, but it doesn't fund unions... Thus, your state's resistance to it.

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by pnwmdk

Look at every state that recently ( past 2 decades) either created a shall issue concealed carry, or made theirs into a shall issue, and you can find a statistically correlated drop in crime. In my state, every urban and metro area saw double digit percentage drops in violent crime in just one year.

Not only will crime decrease, it will do so dramatically. The only "public safety" issue is that concealed carry makes the public safer, but it doesn't fund unions... Thus, your state's resistance to it.

Correlation and causation are very different things.

[pnwmdk]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

Correlation and causation are very different things.

Oh, so you think that an immediate and dramatic drop in crime rates... with all other factors being equal... is not evidence of cause?

The passage of our "shall issue" laws perfectly coincided with a 10 to 30 percent reduction ( year to year change) in various violent crimes... armed robbery, rape, etc in our largest city. The mayor of the town actually SAID ( reminds me of you ) that it didn't matter if the public was safer, and there were fewer victims, people still should not be armed.

That drop tapered off after 3 years, and then the trends resumed their normal course after that.

This has been observed pretty much everywhere.

And, it can be counted on a certain special interest group to say "crime reduction isn't important, controlling guns is". Can YOU explain to me why gun control laws, which have a worsening effect on violent crime, are demanded by people?

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by pnwmdk

Oh, so you think that an immediate and dramatic drop in crime rates... with all other factors being equal... is not evidence of cause?

In 2012 in Chicago, there were 437 fewer homicides than there were 20 years ago. That's a 46% decrease in total homicides in the city.

Crime in Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2010 in Chicago, there ~16,000 fewer robberies (down 53%) and ~14,000 fewer burglaries (down 35%) than in 1995.

FBI — Crime in the U.S.

The homicide rate in Illinois is nearly half what is used to be in the 90s despite the fact that the population of the state is at its historical high and despite the fact that Illinois will be the last state to enact concealed carry.

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

The people of Illinois are safer than they were two decades ago, and it is not because of concealed carry. Correlation absolutely does not equal causation.

[pnwmdk]

Nationwide, crime rates are falling. One might say that the certain decks on the Titanic were "safer" as well, but it's not an argument that it's "safe". It might be slightly less horrendously bad, but one could hardly call the overall rates in much of Chicago and the suburbs as anything but hideous, despite reductions.

That, however, isn't any explanation for why instant and very obvious reductions in crime coincide with the passage of "shall issue" concealed carry as well as having freedom of ownership, and do so repeatedly.

Anyone will tell you that the ability to repeat test is the ultimate test of a theory, and by that test, the premise can be reasonably (barring any other large unknown or unaccounted factor) be counted on as true.

[Filthy McNasty]

Originally Posted by linicx

i grew up with guns in the house. I've been to collectors shows. I've fired many. I think the original Colt .44 Peacemaker is the prettiest gun I ever handled. They are all killing machines. CC or not, I personally don't see how a single 12 round clip is any defense against a 100 round semi-auto.

The problem isn't cowardice. The problem is the courts. What we are doing is not working. The little thugs need to be rounded up and sent to Afganistan, Greenland, South Korean, to boot camp and a 3 year tour. We'll see how fast the little piggys squeal. By the time it's argued in the courts and SCOTUS hands down an opinion they will all be back home, and their little brothers will be doing a tour.

Where are you seeing "100 round semi-auto" being used??

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

In 2012 in Chicago, there were 437 fewer homicides than there were 20 years ago. That's a 46% decrease in total homicides in the city.

Crime in Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2010 in Chicago, there ~16,000 fewer robberies (down 53%) and ~14,000 fewer burglaries (down 35%) than in 1995.

FBI — Crime in the U.S.

The homicide rate in Illinois is nearly half what is used to be in the 90s despite the fact that the population of the state is at its historical high and despite the fact that Illinois will be the last state to enact concealed carry.

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

The people of Illinois are safer than they were two decades ago, and it is not because of concealed carry. Correlation absolutely does not equal causation.

This has been explained here before...the homicide rate has dropped, partially because there are now more advanced medical procedures in place that help prevent a death from a wound. You have to look at total shootings, not homicides.

However, shootings have fallen, and this is partially because the populations in some areas of Chicago are falling dramatically as people move out of the dangerous parts of the city.

Also - Illinois is not at an all-time high right now population wise; it actually lost a congressman (and electoral vote) as a result of the most recent census.