How can we fix East St Louis? (Peoria, Oak Park: appointed, real estate)

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

So, we all know that East St Louis is a poverty- and crime-ridden hell hole. People are leaving in droves and the place is bound to become a totally abandoned wasteland, not exactly something you want right across the river from the Metro's center. It's not only become an eyesore, but its dangerous reputation scares people away from the anchor city itself because they're too stupid to know the difference. Additionally, crime from the east side often spills over into Missouri, causing troubles for residents of the city. So how can we fix the poverty and crime issues of East St. Louis?

The way I see it, the only way to rescue EStL is by bringing back what it has lost-heavy industry. Encouraging outside investment, lowering taxes, and controlling crime and corruption by even the most extreme means-perhaps by handing the reigns over to new leadership appointed by the state or even the federal govt. (I'm not 100% clear on how lower level politics work but clearly, the citizens of East St. Louis are struggling to lead themselves-not saying it's their fault in that regard, but properly educated leadership don't emerge from places like EStL) would help pave the way for heavy industries to return to the area and give much-needed jobs to the blue-collar citizens of the metro east. The US doesn't have much heavy industry to go around, but encouraging outside investment (like from Chinese businesses) could help provide the capital needed to get heavy industry going again. There is plenty of open real estate for development. As for issues like pollution, some regulations could be put in place (maybe higher taxes for higher pollution?) to keep it in check. Additionally, I think that EStL should annex some of its immediate neighboring municipalities (Sauget, Fairmont City, Alorton, Centreville, Washington Park, Brooklyn) to take on their tax revenue for a little boost.

So what do you guys think would be the best way to turn East St Louis and the surrounding area around? How can we right the ship? Any ideas?

[linicx]

The reality is it has been tried before many times, and failed. The reality is the State of Illinois legislators ignore it. The reality is those who work in St. Louis live somewhere else. The reality is it is not safe. The reality is there is no money to do anything.

Raze it to the ground and rebuild it with a strong police force and smart city council. You cannot afford the wrecklng ball, dozers, or clean up. It is what it is until the last resident leaves or dies.

The reality is it has been discussed here before with much the same conclusion. Change has to come from within. Trickle down economics won't work. If you want to do something helpful to ESL learn how to write effective Grants. Grant money can do much good if crooks don't have fingers in it, and contracts are awarded fairly.

[karlsch]

The United States has a large and growing permanent underclass. They are unemployable. They will forever depend on the government for their existence.

Some of them are the inhabitants of East Saint Louis.

Nobody, especially the Chinese, is going to bring “heavy industry” back to East Saint Louis.

Although many refuse to believe it, some things just can't be changed. One of those things is East Saint Louis.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by linicx

Trickle down economics won't work.

East St. Louis was named an "All American City" in 1959 when it peaked with about 82,000 residents. It declined quickly thereafter. By 1980, it was down to 55,000 residents. Now, it has about 27,000 residents. Diversity? Not so much - its about 98'% black.

I'm not sure if you are blaming Ronald Reagan and his supply side (derided as trickle down) economics for East St. Louis' downfall, but I can assure you that it was a disaster area by the time Reagan took office in 1981. It had already declined from 82k to 55k by 1980 - before Reagan took office.

There were massive changes of course between 1959 and 1981, similar to what was seen in Detroit, parts of St Louis Missouri, and elsewhere. Race riots in 1967 - massive white flight. It was virtually all black by the time Reagan took office.

I can also assure you things have only gotten worse under Obama's trickle up poverty. It's been black flight for years. Last one there turn out the lights. I drive through it occasionally to marvel at it. It really is a small scale Detroit.

Blame what you deride as "trickle down" economics if you wish, if it supports a world view you hold dear. The decline started probably under Eisenhower, picked up pace under Kennedy and LBJ, continued under Nixon, Ford, Carter, etc. If East St. Louis was a battleground in LBJ's war on poverty - those waging war against poverty lost badly.

Grants? Sure, apply for some grants. It might help someone there.

In larger cities poor neighborhoods are sometimes turned around by gentrification. Seems unlikely to happen in ESTL, but who knows.

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by karlsch

The United States has a large and growing permanent underclass. They are unemployable. They will forever depend on the government for their existence.

Some of them are the inhabitants of East Saint Louis.

Nobody, especially the Chinese, is going to bring “heavy industry” back to East Saint Louis.

Although many refuse to believe it, some things just can't be changed. One of those things is East Saint Louis.

Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Because it seems to me that the idea of "they're too lazy to work, so it's no use bringing in jobs" is a great example of one.

Crime happens in EStL because there are no resources from within-none. Not for education, not for policing, not for sewage and trash collection, nothing. The whole town is caught in a vicious cycle of poverty, and while change has to come from within, at this point it needs an outside push to get it started. The fact that nobody will give it a try because it seems useless is the whole reason it's a mess-nobody wants to step in and get their hands dirty.

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

East St. Louis was named an "All American City" in 1959 when it peaked with about 82,000 residents. It declined quickly thereafter. By 1980, it was down to 55,000 residents. Now, it has about 27,000 residents. Diversity? Not so much - its about 98'% black.

I'm not sure if you are blaming Ronald Reagan and his supply side (derided as trickle down) economics for East St. Louis' downfall, but I can assure you that it was a disaster area by the time Reagan took office in 1981. It had already declined from 82k to 55k by 1980 - before Reagan took office.

There were massive changes of course between 1959 and 1981, similar to what was seen in Detroit, parts of St Louis Missouri, and elsewhere. Race riots in 1967 - massive white flight. It was virtually all black by the time Reagan took office.

I can also assure you things have only gotten worse under Obama's trickle up poverty. It's been black flight for years. Last one there turn out the lights. I drive through it occasionally to marvel at it. It really is a small scale Detroit.

Blame what you deride as "trickle down" economics if you wish, if it supports a world view you hold dear. The decline started probably under Eisenhower, picked up pace under Kennedy and LBJ, continued under Nixon, Ford, Carter, etc. If East St. Louis was a battleground in LBJ's war on poverty - those waging war against poverty lost badly.

Grants? Sure, apply for some grants. It might help someone there.

In larger cities poor neighborhoods are sometimes turned around by gentrification. Seems unlikely to happen in ESTL, but who knows.

I don't think he's blaming Ronald Reagan or the idea of "trickle-down economics" as we know it. I think he's saying that just injecting money into EStL and sitting back and hoping change will happen is no longer a viable option. I agree with this-the leadership is too corrupt and caught up in EStL's problems, as well as a victim of the poor education there, to be able to lead effectively. If you ask me, I think that EStL's leadership needs a leadership of its own.

As for gentrification in EStL, that's not happening anytime soon. Nobody's going to move to EStL for a LONG time. The best we can hope for is to give less reasons for people to leave.

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs

................ Because it seems to me that the idea of "they're too lazy to work, so it's no use bringing in jobs" is a great example of one...................

Where did I say they were too lazy to work??

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs

So what do you guys think would be the best way to turn East St Louis and the surrounding area around? How can we right the ship? Any ideas?

Considering this is 2014 and yet white flight is still happening in neighboring Belleville because people from East St. Louis are moving there, I'm thinking that the ship has officially sunk.

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by karlsch

Where did I say they were too lazy to work??

I take it that's what you meant by "unemployable." If not, please clarify.

[linicx]

Don't be rude. DC politics didn't cause ESL problems, ESL did. All American City, Main Street City, Maple Leaf City, is no big deal. Peoria has several, Oak Park has a drawer full. It's a one run in the local paper and forgotten award. It doesn't put food in the mouths of hungry kids. When manufacturing began to wane ESL, Peoria, and a dozen other cities like it in the 13 Midwest sates had the opportunity to do something. Those that did not became Rest Belt casualties like Detroit. When CAT installed the first mainframe in E.Peoria in the late 60s residents didn't flee, and Peoria began to reinvent itself. Today it is STEM city with a Medical District, research community, busy port and a lot more.

ESL residents have two choices: Move out or move up. It's their choice. If they have the backbone to stay, then they need to start with a bulldozer, meetings with like minded individuals, and exclude corrupt politicians, cops, etc..If they go forward carefully five years from now they'll have a nice city.

A town that creates something beautiful out of ashes is enough to entice people to come.
.

Originally Posted by MUTGR

East St. Louis was named an "All American City" in 1959 when it peaked with about 82,000 residents. It declined quickly thereafter. By 1980, it was down to 55,000 residents. Now, it has about 27,000 residents. Diversity? Not so much - its about 98'% black.

I'm not sure if you are blaming Ronald Reagan and his supply side (derided as trickle down) economics for East St. Louis' downfall, but I can assure you that it was a disaster area by the time Reagan took office in 1981. It had already declined from 82k to 55k by 1980 - before Reagan took office.

There were massive changes of course between 1959 and 1981, similar to what was seen in Detroit, parts of St Louis Missouri, and elsewhere. Race riots in 1967 - massive white flight. It was virtually all black by the time Reagan took office.

I can also assure you things have only gotten worse under Obama's trickle up poverty. It's been black flight for years. Last one there turn out the lights. I drive through it occasionally to marvel at it. It really is a small scale Detroit.

Blame what you deride as "trickle down" economics if you wish, if it supports a world view you hold dear. The decline started probably under Eisenhower, picked up pace under Kennedy and LBJ, continued under Nixon, Ford, Carter, etc. If East St. Louis was a battleground in LBJ's war on poverty - those waging war against poverty lost badly.

Grants? Sure, apply for some grants. It might help someone there.

In larger cities poor neighborhoods are sometimes turned around by gentrification. Seems unlikely to happen in ESTL, but who knows.