Is there really a culturally Southern area of Illinois? (Chicago: school, living in)

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by North 42

Actually Columbus is not that much different from Ann Arbor, just bigger, and in no way do they feel like they are in a different region. Obviously the further you get from the lakes themselves the less influence they will have, but the Great Lakes is a huge region that has a lot of influence. Plus, not every part of the Great Lakes is the same, there is a different feel depending on what part of them you are in.

Things like ethnic groups, history, industries, and architecture change significantly when you get out of the Great Lakes region. Same with climate. Though climate zones are the same as in humid continental, the snow lessens significantly.

Also the German influence increases when you leave the Great Lakes and the Polish/ Italian/ Jewish influence decreases as well.

So there is a bit of difference. Ann Arbor and Columbus are similar in that they are both college towns with a historic rivalry.

The Rust Belt is very different from the agricultural Midwest. And the agricultural Midwest takes up a significant part of northern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois.

I don't know that anyone considers Columbus as part of the Great Lakes region.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Things like ethnic groups, history, industries, and architecture change significantly when you get out of the Great Lakes region. Same with climate. Though climate zones are the same as in humid continental, the snow lessens significantly.

Also the German influence increases when you leave the Great Lakes and the Polish/ Italian/ Jewish influence decreases as well.

So there is a bit of difference. Ann Arbor and Columbus are similar in that they are both college towns with a historic rivalry.

The Rust Belt is very different from the agricultural Midwest. And the agricultural Midwest takes up a significant part of northern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois.

I don't know that anyone considers Columbus as part of the Great Lakes region.

The NCVS accent does include Columbus on the maps. The rural areas of Ohio have very few people compared to the metro areas. Cincinnati is the only large metro in Ohio that does not have Great Lakes influences.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

The NCVS accent does include Columbus on the maps. The rural areas of Ohio have very few people compared to the metro areas. Cincinnati is the only large metro in Ohio that does not have Great Lakes influences.

No?









Columbus is in the Midland/Standard Midwest/General American dialect family just like Indianapolis and the rest of Illinois that isn't part of the Illinois River Corridor where the Northern sound prevails.

Another interesting point is that I wouldn't consider St. Louis a Great Lakes city even though they have the accent. That is a weird case where a non Great Lakes city takes on that dialect. But Columbus never did. When I visited there I noticed the fact that nobody really spoke like any Michigander.

Also NCVS doesn't really exist in much of Wisconsin or Duluth (they have the North Central or "Minnesota" sound where caught and cot AND lot and cloth merge with a Broad A sound and short A turns into an E so bag and vague rhyme).

That's why I didn't really use NCVS as a determinant of whether something is part of the Great Lakes. I just used "being near the geographical and cultural sphere of influence argument". St. Louis may he influenced by Chicago culturally and may share Great Lakes demographics to a tiny extent but it is not a Great Lakes city.

[Count David]

Weird how lakes make people have accents. Is there a river between Chicago and St. Louis that carried it down that way (lol)?

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Weird how lakes make people have accents. Is there a river between Chicago and St. Louis that carried it down that way (lol)?

There is a river and the common heritage of most Great Lakes people is origin in a lot of the same European countries whose immigrants working on the Erie canal are thought to have slowly formed the Great Lakes accent due to their linguistic features that sort of "combined"

[North 42]

The NCVS accent is not Great Lakes exclusive, as the maps show, so it's boundaries should not be used as a map of Great Lakes culture, because it's not. There are multiple accents in the Great Lakes, and the Midland/General American is one of them.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by North 42

The NCVS accent is not Great Lakes exclusive, as the maps show, so it's boundaries should not be used as a map of Great Lakes culture, because it's not. There are multiple accents in the Great Lakes, and the Midland/General American is one of them.

I don't think anyone was saying that. I certainly wasn't saying that presence of NCVS makes for Great Lakes. St. Louis is a great example. The UP of Michigan and the far corners of the Northern Lower Peninsula also have NO NCVS but are still Great Lakes.

But how is Columbus a Great Lakes city? Or Indianapolis or Springfield? Just because you're in a state that touches a Great Lake doesn't mean you're part of the Great Lakes sphere of influence.

Like I said, things like ethnic groups change when you leave the GL area. You see very few Polish people and Jews in the rest of Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois. They have no lake effect snow, their winters are mild, and there is really no connectivity between those areas and the Great Lakes in terms of continuous metro regions. Once you leave major Great Lakes metros, you're in a whole bunch of nothing for hours before you reach another metro. That's why I find it hard to believe that somewhere like Indy or Columbus would be influenced by the Great Lakes. How are they??

[Maintainschaos]

In my experience, there's a pretty strong commonality of the region that stretches from S. Minnesota, through Iowa, and across central Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio (including Des Moines, Springfield, Champaign, Indianapolis, and Columbus; i.e. corn/wheat/soy belt), which is distinct from the region that encompasses Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, and across to Cleveland and even up into Buffalo (rust belt). Maybe it's a subtle difference, but having grown up in the former and lived several years in the latter, it seems obvious to me (although there's also some crossover between the two). Those two regions are also distinct from S. IL, IN, OH, which are also kind of their own thing.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

In my experience, there's a pretty strong commonality of the region that stretches from S. Minnesota, through Iowa, and across central Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio (including Des Moines, Springfield, Champaign, Indianapolis, and Columbus; i.e. corn/wheat/soy belt), which is distinct from the region that encompasses Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, and across to Cleveland and even up into Buffalo (rust belt). Maybe it's a subtle difference, but having grown up in the former and lived several years in the latter, it seems obvious to me (although there's also some crossover between the two). Those two regions are also distinct from S. IL, IN, OH, which are also kind of their own thing.

There is definitely more than one type of Midwest just like with the Northeast and heck even the South.

But Southern Illinois doesn't seem all that Southern to me. It lacks the rural Black populations, mild winters (even Carbondale has a colder winter than a lot of Kentucky), Southern accent, and Southern food associated with all of the South. It just seems too much like the rest of Illinois except for the topography.

It seems maybe slightly Southern but more of a transitional Midwest to South region.

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

There is definitely more than one type of Midwest just like with the Northeast and heck even the South.

But Southern Illinois doesn't seem all that Southern to me. It lacks the rural Black populations, mild winters (even Carbondale has a colder winter than a lot of Kentucky), Southern accent, and Southern food associated with all of the South. It just seems too much like the rest of Illinois except for the topography.

It seems maybe slightly Southern but more of a transitional Midwest to South region.

Oh I definitely agree it's a transition region, but I also think it is distinct from Northern Illinois and Central Illinois.