Gov. J.B. Pritzker unveils graduated state income tax plan he says would give break to taxpayers earning less than $250K (Chicago: crime, credit)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Grlzrl

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuo...budget-deficit

Cuomo blames federal tax law for $2.3 billion New York budget deficit


New York State is facing a $2.3 billion budget deficit, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo believes it's largely due to the Trump administration's tax reforms which, on the "flip side," have taxed the rich and may be encouraging wealthy residents to leave.

President Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which takes effect for the 2018 tax year, places a cap on the state and local tax deduction (known as SALT) that Americans can take. Residents of largely blue states with relatively high state and local taxes are adversely affected, Cuomo says, by the new cap of a $10,000 deduction. New York state's average SALT deduction was....

Yeah, between that, the loss of Amazon, and the Buffalo Billion debacle, we may have to wait awhile before adding the New York Miracle to the "Minnesota Miracle." I don't think NY's in as good a shape as some think it is. NYC has a draw all its own, and is much further along in gentrification than we are. I think we'll get a rude awakening if we try to emulate that state.

[fusillirob1983]

Originally Posted by Grlzrl

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuo...budget-deficit

Cuomo blames federal tax law for $2.3 billion New York budget deficit


New York State is facing a $2.3 billion budget deficit, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo believes it's largely due to the Trump administration's tax reforms which, on the "flip side," have taxed the rich and may be encouraging wealthy residents to leave.

President Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which takes effect for the 2018 tax year, places a cap on the state and local tax deduction (known as SALT) that Americans can take. Residents of largely blue states with relatively high state and local taxes are adversely affected, Cuomo says, by the new cap of a $10,000 deduction. New York state's average SALT deduction was....

That partially contributed to people leaving probably. Read the whole article and he makes the point you and several others are trying to make. People's wallets aren't partisan.

[My Kind Of Town]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I'm sold on the first option. Come up with a way. Consolidate. Work with the Federal government to get rid of redundant enforcement. Seek a constitutional amendment to modify the pension clause and go with the 401k option like the rest of us schleps have to have in order to have any chance of not being a Wal Mart greeter at age 75. I bet that would pass with flying colors with the voters. The problem is public employee unions keep these guys in office, so that's never going to happen.

The thing is any constitutional amendment requires approval by state judges. Guess who also happens to be in the Tier 1 pension system? Across the board spending cuts is a horrible idea. They should be seeking cuts in areas where there is excess or consolidation opportunities, not blindly across the board. And it’s a 15% cut now. What will it be in 5 years? 25%? How about 10 years? 40%? At that point, services in this state would be so appalling that everyone would be moving out because the schools are crap, the social services are non-existent, and a large contingent of the public sector would be out of jobs. Doesn’t sound very sustainable. That’s why I’ve always advocated for revenue increase and spending cuts now. Some short term pain no doubt but I’d rather address the issue rather than let it drag out another two decades.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town

The thing is any constitutional amendment requires approval by state judges. Guess who also happens to be in the Tier 1 pension system? Across the board spending cuts is a horrible idea. They should be seeking cuts in areas where there is excess or consolidation opportunities, not blindly across the board. And it’s a 15% cut now. What will it be in 5 years? 25%? How about 10 years? 40%? At that point, services in this state would be so appalling that everyone would be moving out because the schools are crap, the social services are non-existent, and a large contingent of the public sector would be out of jobs. Doesn’t sound very sustainable. That’s why I’ve always advocated for revenue increase and spending cuts now. Some short term pain no doubt but I’d rather address the issue rather than let it drag out another two decades.

Ok, fair enough. Was that 15% spending cut figure what would be needed after making cuts in areas where there is excess or consolidation opportunities? I'll answer that for you, "no." He's not even looking at that, and you know that.

[GhostOfAndrewJackson]

Originally Posted by Bitey

And I don't care if they were "promised" that money because their unions bought the people sitting on the other side of the bargaining table who promised them the resources of people who weren't even born yet and had no say in their part of that "promise."

Exactly, this is not a trivial point. A lot of this nation's founding had to do with the concept of indentured servitude, slavery, and debtors prison.

A person is born a citizen of a state not a citizen of the United State's of America. And in particular when a child is born in Illinois they are born into a share of personal debt by virtue of being made a citizen of the state. They are given no choice in the matter. The yolk of pension debt is shackled on them at birth. And what makes this so insidious is that the debt exist not for services they benefit from but for services that they receive no benefit, this is very unlike being born into debt for the construction of schools, roads, and bridges that have a useful life from which they gain benefit.

In fact we acknowledge intergenerational debt is not just and proper by virtue of our long established system of probate. Note that probate's primary purpose is to deal with the discharge of debt and there is no legal mechanism(in the United States) to transfer the debt incurred by parent's to their children.

And yet in Illinois, contrary to the very foundational law of this country we have intergenerational debt for services past rendered. It is not and future generations have no moral obligation to honor the debts of the preceding generation.

[MSchemist80]

Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town

Is really that simple? How much of a “haircut” is needed to resolve all of the state’s fiscal issues?

How about a graduated pension haircut? People just getting a $30k pension get no haircut and the judges and politicians getting $250k/yr pension get a big haircut.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson

Exactly, this is not a trivial point. A lot of this nation's founding had to do with the concept of indentured servitude, slavery, and debtors prison.

A person is born a citizen of a state not a citizen of the United State's of America. And in particular when a child is born in Illinois they are born into a share of personal debt by virtue of being made a citizen of the state. They are given no choice in the matter. The yolk of pension debt is shackled on them at birth. And what makes this so insidious is that the debt exist not for services they benefit from but for services that they receive no benefit, this is very unlike being born into debt for the construction of schools, roads, and bridges that have a useful life from which they gain benefit.

In fact we acknowledge intergenerational debt is not just and proper by virtue of our long established system of probate. Note that probate's primary purpose is to deal with the discharge of debt and there is no legal mechanism(in the United States) to transfer the debt incurred by parent's to their children.

And yet in Illinois, contrary to the very foundational law of this country we have intergenerational debt for services past rendered. It is not and future generations have no moral obligation to honor the debts of the preceding generation.

The problem is that it's easy enough to escape this pre-existing debt by moving to another state which was more financially responsible. And that's exactly what we're seeing. Maybe we're the ones who need the wall!

[GhostOfAndrewJackson]

Originally Posted by BRU67

The problem is that it's easy enough to escape this pre-existing debt by moving to another state which was more financially responsible. And that's exactly what we're seeing. Maybe we're the ones who need the wall!

Why is it a problem? You do realize the so called pension debt will never be repaid (because Democrats are unwilling to let that happen) except by Federal bailout. In which case no one escapes.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson

Why is it a problem? You do realize the so called pension debt will never be repaid (because Democrats are unwilling to let that happen) except by Federal bailout. In which case no one escapes.

It's a problem because progressives are in power and they are saying that all we need to do is raise the taxes on the rich and the pension debt will be fairly repaid, by those who can afford it. I immediately ask what's to stop "the rich" from leaving the state.

To date, I've yet to receive a satisfactory answer, beyond the argument that a dollar to a rich person really doesn't mean that much so they'll just pay it (yeah, right!).

Anyway, this will be resolved in one of three ways: 1) an administration gets voted in which makes the hard choice and passes a proposed amendment to the IL Constitution's pension clause and implements serious reforms to our state pension system; 2) the State falls into such crisis, even our no-spine progressive Democrats and their public employee union handlers cannot ignore it and are forced to do something; or, 3) things get so bad it becomes a humanitarian crisis and we get bailed out by the Fed. I've listed these in order of least likely to most likely.

[MSchemist80]

Originally Posted by BRU67

To date, I've yet to receive a satisfactory answer, beyond the argument that a dollar to a rich person really doesn't mean that much so they'll just pay it (yeah, right!).

Some rich people (and middle-class too) are going to have big issues selling their home. Look how long Michael Jordan has been trying to offload his place in Highland Park. Leaving the state isn't always an easy option. Some people are stuck here because of family or, like myself, jobs. Also, overall it is appalling that we allow an institution that is suppose to serve the people exploit, oppress, and mistreat them to the point they want to flee the state.

Some rich people are just as bad and apathetic and managing their finances as poor and middle-class people. They just spend money and write checks and have no idea how much is coming in and how much is going out. Look at how many NFL and other pro sports players end up going bankrupt shortly after they retire.

However, many middle-class and rich people are going to continue to leave the state as it is just a really bad deal. If anything happened to my job I would have no reason nor desire to stay here.