illinois taxes and people who are moving out of the state (Springfield: credit, bankruptcy)

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

I don’t read anything that says upper income can only go up and lower income can only go down. But if you listen to the commercials and read how it’s presented on the ballot, there intent is to raise the % on the upper income earners, exactly how the federal income tax rates operate.

After the 16th Amendment was passed, the income tax was 1% on income above today's equivalent of $78,000 and 7% on income above today's equivalent of $13 million. So thanks for the reminder of the downward bracket creep and upward rate creep we should expect over time if this stupid "Fair" Tax is passed.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

I don’t read anything that says upper income can only go up and lower income can only go down. But if you listen to the commercials and read how it’s presented on the ballot, there intent is to raise the % on the upper income earners, exactly how the federal income tax rates operate.

If that's their intent then they should have put that limiting language in the referendum. But it's not there. That tells me that's not their real intent.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by wjj

Until they realize they need more money and redefine upper income as $50K like other states have.

They can raise the rate on everybody right now. The only difference is that they will be able to not raise it on lower income (and or middle income) and raise the percentage on higher income. Exactly he w the federal government taxes citizens.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Exactly, if they can open the constitution up for this, they can open it up for pension changes.

I don't want to take away pension benefits that have already been earned, that's punitive. But IL's constitution guarantees that someone who works a short period of time under a certain set of pension benefits, keeps those same benefits for their entire career, and that's just plain crazy. To be specific, Tier One workers hired before 2011 (the year that new workers were hired in under Tier Two pension rules) have been accumulating Tier One benefits for the past nine years, when they should have been switched over to Tier Two in 2011 and had a "melded" pension. But that was forbidden due to the Constitution. IL politicians have been writing checks that the state can't pay for, for decades. Before they ask taxpayers for even more money, they need to fix that stupid rule.

“Grandfathering” existing workers is not limited to the state of Illinois. It runs rampant at most employers. Pensions, vacation time sick time, retiree medical are just some of the things that differ between older and younger workers.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

“Grandfathering” existing workers is not limited to the state of Illinois. It runs rampant at most employers. Pensions, vacation time sick time, retiree medical are just some of the things that differ between older and younger workers.

It sure wasn't in my company, I had my pension "frozen" about thirty years ago, the company switched to a better match and higher contribution limits on 401k's. It "hurt" financially, but I adapted and survived. IL is going broke, and should have done the same thing in 2011. But because the politicians are beholden to the state workers, didn't want to pay the political price for doing so. And as a result, we are in "crisis" today. I have no sympathy for the state itself and therefore no guilt over simply jumping ship and leaving them to fail. And the residents? Well, they kept electing the same idiots (Madigan, et al) into power, year, after year. What was it Barack said? Oh, yeah, "Elections have consequences".

[wjj]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

They can raise the rate on everybody right now. The only difference is that they will be able to not raise it on lower income (and or middle income) and raise the percentage on higher income. Exactly he w the federal government taxes citizens.

Sorry, but you are missing the point. They can push the bracket thresholds way down grabbing more and more people at a higher rate. The brackets are not fixed in the amendment. They can be set anywhere at any time at any rate. Like California where the 9.3% rate bracket extends from about $60K all the way up to $300,000K. Grabs all of the middle class in one fell swoop at a very high rate in a single broad bracket. There are 10 brackets in California, but the only one that counts for big bucks revenue is the big one in the middle. Eventually that is what will happen in Illinois just like it has in California because there just will not be enough "rich" to soak. The real money is in the middle class who don't have the means to pick up and leave and that is where politicians will go for money if this passes. Anyone thinking they are protected if they make below $250K is very naive.


If California isn't your cup of tea, let's look at what some neighboring states have done with their brackets and where their brackets over 4.95% kick in.


Wisconsin - 6.27% bracket kicks in at at $23,525.
Iowa - 7.44% bracket kicks in at $49,980
Missouri - 5.4% bracket kicks in at only $8,424
Michigan - 4.25% flat tax
Indiana - 3.23% flat tax
Minnesota - 6.8% bracket kicks in at $26,961
Kentucky - 5% flat tax


See a pattern here? In all of the neighboring progressive tax states high rate brackets were pushed down to low income thresholds at rates higher than the Illinois 4.95% current rate. This is the future for Illinois residents if this amendment passes.

[orca17]

Originally Posted by KB71

It's been rumored that our governor Sisolak is wanting to implement a state income tax here, but that will need to be voted upon for approval into the state constitution.

A total load of crap spread by Republicans.

[MovingForward59]

Originally Posted by wjj

Sorry, but you are missing the point. They can push the bracket thresholds way down grabbing more and more people at a higher rate. The brackets are not fixed in the amendment. They can be set anywhere at any time at any rate. Like California where the 9.3% rate bracket extends from about $60K all the way up to $300,000K. Grabs all of the middle class in one fell swoop at a very high rate in a single broad bracket. Eventually that is what will happen in Illinois just like it has in California because there just will not be enough "rich" to soak. The real money is in the middle class who don't have the means to pick up and leave and that is where politicians will go for money if this passes. Anyone thinking they are protected if they make below $250K is very naive.


If California isn't your cup of tea, let's look at what some neighboring states have done with their brackets and where their brackets over 4.95% kick in.


Wisconsin - 6.27% bracket kicks in at at $23,525.
Iowa - 7.44% bracket kicks in at $49,980
Missouri - 5.4% bracket kicks in at only $8,424
Michigan - 4.25% flat tax
Indiana - 3.23% flat tax
Minnesota - 6.8% bracket kicks in at $26,961
Kentucky - 5% flat tax


See a pattern here? In all of the neighboring progressive tax states high rate brackets were pushed down to low income thresholds at rates higher than the Illinois 4.95% current rate. This is the future for Illinois residents if this amendment passes.

One of several reasons we are moving to Indiana soon. The lowest tax rate in the group is appealing.
I do expect Illinoisans to be naive enough to approve the fair tax amendment. Then watch the decline.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by wjj

Sorry, but you are missing the point. They can push the bracket thresholds way down grabbing more and more people at a higher rate. The brackets are not fixed in the amendment. They can be set anywhere at any time at any rate. Like California where the 9.3% rate bracket extends from about $60K all the way up to $300,000K. Grabs all of the middle class in one fell swoop at a very high rate in a single broad bracket. There are 10 brackets in California, but the only one that counts for big bucks revenue is the big one in the middle. Eventually that is what will happen in Illinois just like it has in California because there just will not be enough "rich" to soak. The real money is in the middle class who don't have the means to pick up and leave and that is where politicians will go for money if this passes. Anyone thinking they are protected if they make below $250K is very naive.


If California isn't your cup of tea, let's look at what some neighboring states have done with their brackets and where their brackets over 4.95% kick in.


Wisconsin - 6.27% bracket kicks in at at $23,525.
Iowa - 7.44% bracket kicks in at $49,980
Missouri - 5.4% bracket kicks in at only $8,424
Michigan - 4.25% flat tax
Indiana - 3.23% flat tax
Minnesota - 6.8% bracket kicks in at $26,961
Kentucky - 5% flat tax


See a pattern here? In all of the neighboring progressive tax states high rate brackets were pushed down to low income thresholds at rates higher than the Illinois 4.95% current rate. This is the future for Illinois residents if this amendment passes.

I’m not missing your point. They can “change” the rate right now. Just not by a certain “bracket”. And I’m in favor of different brackets based on income, just like the federal government. We’re basically gonna “pick your poison”, either the 4.95 rate gets raised (for everyone) or we allow Illinois create different tax brackets based on income, which I wholeheartedly agree with both federally and statewide.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

I’m not missing your point. They can “change” the rate right now. Just not by a certain “bracket”. And I’m in favor of different brackets based on income, just like the federal government. We’re basically gonna “pick your poison”, either the 4.95 rate gets raised (for everyone) or we allow Illinois create different tax brackets based on income, which I wholeheartedly agree with both federally and statewide.

There's a strong limiting effect to a flat tax like we have now. It doesn't give politicians as much flexibility to "pander" to their bases because they can't use the income tax as a "gift basket". If it goes up for one, it goes up for all.

If they get the amendment passed, then they'll be able to enact higher percentage taxes on the wealthy just as they're saying. I believe they will try that, or tell us they're trying that. The problem, though, is going to be that those higher earners won't pay much state income tax. They usually have business losses, rollover investments, and other mechanisms by which take their personal income down to zero. And they can afford great accountants to take advantage of every possible income tax loophole. I mean, do you remember the Trump income tax return story? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Or those people will just move if they see that they may get hit with a high state income tax on top of their unchecked property tax bill. Then the next "tier" of rich people will get hit, and so on down the line until eventually, the middle class ends up with the high burden.

I'm just astonished that proponents of this take voters for being completely stupid. Anyway, polling is showing that this amendment is in major trouble. I hope that downward arrow continues.