Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
wow this seems like a huuuuuuuge win for the companies that built the chargers. well-done, lobby-ers.
Nope, the law does not require installation of an charger. In fact EV's can use mobile charges from the manufacturer (or come with them) if there is an electric outlet already installed at this point.
Or the person can buy ANY EV charger they like that is compatible with the wiring. Or choose not to install one at all. In fact there are very good reasons why you would not WANT the house to come with a charger and drive an EV as different chargers can have all sorts of options you might want or need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuy2.5
Well I can't argue with someone who isn't even debating the same topic. You're still missing my points entirely. I really don't know what to say to help you understand that the argument is about the governments role in consumerism NOT related to safety codes or ADA laws or anything else that involves keeping people safe and allowing access for all. Since you don't seem to grasp the difference in an EV outlet vs a secondary fire exit in a bedroom, I pray you're not out there voting for this bill.
There IS a safety issue here. An EV needs it's own line and should not be shared with other appliances. It draws too much current and the only thing standing between you and a housefire if an EV is plugged into a overloaded outlet will be your circuit breaker. With a separate line it is impossible for it to be overloaded since nothing else in the house can be plugged into it. It is possible to charge two vehicles at once with this sort of line but the charger is built to split it such that the circuit is not overloaded.
The government is involved in all sorts of consumerism for instance a new house does not need to have appliances installed(rentals do). It can be sold without but no one in there right mind would buy a kitchen that can not support the appliances that will be installed in it. So there are rules regarding things like outlet placements and types as well as gas lines. If a house has appliances when new it is because the builder decided to put them in and he will decide which brands/features to install.
What you are asking for is like asking for the permission to build a house with a kitchen that does not support appliances from day 1. Way back then there was a time when gas and electric stoves were not common nor refrigerators, dishwasher, and other electric appliance and so there were no rules regarding support for them. However over time rules for supporting them did evolve such that the circuits in the kitchen have enough capacity and enough number to support this stuff. For a long time EV's just were not very useful hence why gasoline dominated for so long. However technology does not stop and EV's can perform the role of local driving very well. It is just the road trip that is a problem and even then it depends on the range, how far your are driving and what are you doing along the way. At the moment the top of the line electric cars have ranges that match some gasoline powered ones. The big problem is the time it takes to charge on the road and even that is slowly becoming less a issue as the top of the line U.S. EV can do 516 miles and charge 200 miles in 15 mins. under ideal conditions.
EV's don't have special outlets. They just need a separate line preferably 240V 50amp but a 240 40AMP will do fine(It would be silly to do a 120V 15 amp outlet because the cost savings would be minimal).
There IS a safety issue here. An EV needs it's own line and should not be shared with other appliances. It draws too much current and the only thing standing between you and a housefire if an EV is plugged into a overloaded outlet will be your circuit breaker. With a separate line it is impossible for it to be overloaded since nothing else in the house can be plugged into it. It is possible to charge two vehicles at once with this sort of line but the charger is built to split it such that the circuit is not overloaded.
The government is involved in all sorts of consumerism for instance a new house does not need to have appliances installed(rentals do). It can be sold without but no one in there right mind would buy a kitchen that can not support the appliances that will be installed in it. So there are rules regarding things like outlet placements and types as well as gas lines. If a house has appliances when new it is because the builder decided to put them in and he will decide which brands/features to install.
What you are asking for is like asking for the permission to build a house with a kitchen that does not support appliances from day 1. Way back then there was a time when gas and electric stoves were not common nor refrigerators, dishwasher, and other electric appliance and so there were no rules regarding support for them. However over time rules for supporting them did evolve such that the circuits in the kitchen have enough capacity and enough number to support this stuff. For a long time EV's just were not very useful hence why gasoline dominated for so long. However technology does not stop and EV's can perform the role of local driving very well. It is just the road trip that is a problem and even then it depends on the range, how far your are driving and what are you doing along the way. At the moment the top of the line electric cars have ranges that match some gasoline powered ones. The big problem is the time it takes to charge on the road and even that is slowly becoming less a issue as the top of the line U.S. EV can do 516 miles and charge 200 miles in 15 mins. under ideal conditions.
EV's don't have special outlets. They just need a separate line preferably 240V 50amp but a 240 40AMP will do fine(It would be silly to do a 120V 15 amp outlet because the cost savings would be minimal).
You still don't understand, I really can't help your comprehension skills here so I am going to try and explain once more.
There is NO safety issue at play because an EV outlet is not a requirement. The entire argument is about whether the government should be allowed to require it, NOT what code enforcement occurs when one is present. Of course there should be safety laws for an existing EV outlet, but the government should not require new homes to have them IMO.
I can't help it if you don't understand the topic of conversation at this point.
No way it adds 1% to the cost of a home. That would be like $4,000 without taking into account the value it adds. I could install a 220v outlet in the garage for $200. Also, California is making new gas powered cars illegal to sell in the state, so not having this law would be stupid.
You still don't understand, I really can't help your comprehension skills here so I am going to try and explain once more.
There is NO safety issue at play because an EV outlet is not a requirement. The entire argument is about whether the government should be allowed to require it, NOT what code enforcement occurs when one is present. Of course there should be safety laws for an existing EV outlet, but the government should not require new homes to have them IMO.
I can't help it if you don't understand the topic of conversation at this point.
I think you underestimate just how much is required in a new house as well as the reason why it might be a good idea to require it.
As it stands now new garages are required to have at least 1 GCFI 120V outlet as well 1 electric light that is not tied to that outlet and the garage outlet needs it's own circuit. This is a requirement! This is not a philosophical debate over what the government should or should not be required. In an new house the 120V outlet and lights need to be on their own separate circuit. There are good reasons for this requirement.
My garage does not have GFCI outlets, the circuit is shared with part of my house(despite the garage being detached). I am pretty sure that the garage meet code when it was built. How dare the Government tell me that I need a light in my garage? Did suddenly the Government over reach by requiring that the outlets in new garages be on its own separate circuit? Did the government deny me my God given rights to group around the garage at night in the dark?
To bring it back to topic:
It is NOT SAFE to plug an EV into the two outlets in my garage. They are being used by other stuff both in the garage and in my house. The circuit is not dedicated nor are the outlets GFCI. And neither of the two outlets are in a good place to be used for charging. One is up high and a short person would need a step stool to use it. The other would block the door. A new garage built like the one I have would not meet current code EV or not.
Codes change as times change and new issues arise. Houses today have more electrical stuff in general which is why Garages are required to have a dedicated circuit.
In the case of a new Garage in an new house, while closer to meeting the needs of an EV the garage could have more than 1 outlet on that dedicated circuit and there could be stuff on it(like Freezers, Fridges ect.). So the safety argument remains.
My greatest fear of EV's would be having one inside a garage.
When they burn, it's a viscous fire. Few homes could stand up to their electrical fires.
I'm a hybrid guy, and I don't have to worry about the fires--or getting stranded with the car cutting off suddenly. Tesla is still the most troublesome car on the retail market.
I should have bought stock in Miller Inc., the wrecker manufacturer in Chattanooga. Their future sales of rollbacks should be nothing short of incredible as more EV's come into use.
I think you underestimate just how much is required in a new house as well as the reason why it might be a good idea to require it.
As it stands now new garages are required to have at least 1 GCFI 120V outlet as well 1 electric light that is not tied to that outlet and the garage outlet needs it's own circuit. This is a requirement! This is not a philosophical debate over what the government should or should not be required. In an new house the 120V outlet and lights need to be on their own separate circuit. There are good reasons for this requirement.
My garage does not have GFCI outlets, the circuit is shared with part of my house(despite the garage being detached). I am pretty sure that the garage meet code when it was built. How dare the Government tell me that I need a light in my garage? Did suddenly the Government over reach by requiring that the outlets in new garages be on its own separate circuit? Did the government deny me my God given rights to group around the garage at night in the dark?
To bring it back to topic:
It is NOT SAFE to plug an EV into the two outlets in my garage. They are being used by other stuff both in the garage and in my house. The circuit is not dedicated nor are the outlets GFCI. And neither of the two outlets are in a good place to be used for charging. One is up high and a short person would need a step stool to use it. The other would block the door. A new garage built like the one I have would not meet current code EV or not.
Codes change as times change and new issues arise. Houses today have more electrical stuff in general which is why Garages are required to have a dedicated circuit.
In the case of a new Garage in an new house, while closer to meeting the needs of an EV the garage could have more than 1 outlet on that dedicated circuit and there could be stuff on it(like Freezers, Fridges ect.). So the safety argument remains.
It's clear you still don't understand what we are talking about. It's not an argument about safety for EV wiring. It's an argument about governments role in requiring items in homes that are not necessary and are not safety related. The government is not in the business of determining what the next hot consumer item is or how to support it. The market determines what items should go into homes.
THEN, if someone installs an EV Outlet, the government is responsible for ensuring it's safely installed through our housing code system. That exists today though, so it's not like there is anything different about that in this bill. This bill is to require they be installed which is the argument.
Basically, it's another example of how stupid IL. politicians are.
I'm thinking this one is a play for Fed money, plus they're not going to be building many new single family/town homes anytime soon; at least in this state.
Unless people start moving back.
A year and a half ago I just happened to take in a fairly new VW Tiguan in for an oil change. While I was waiting one of the reps was sitting talking to me and asked if I'd ever seen the new ID.4 EV. I said no but had read some things in some articles about it. He said would you like to take one for spin. Having nothing but time to kill I figured what the heck.
I took it down some streets I knew were rather bumpy and it soaked up the bumps like butter. Turned on a time for a potentilal U turn which surprised me. The shear torque mines any drama of engine roar or gear shifting was rather intoxicating. But as we went back to the dealership he asked me "If we could make this work for you would you be interested". I figured there wasn't a prayer in heaven it would even be possible. But as it turned out this car had just come in to the dealership which was on order for the dealership and not spoken for. They were anxious to get their first EV sale. They made a deal I couldn't pass up and my payment didn't go up a penny.
A week after having it I had an electrician come out and added a 240v. line as that is what the ClipperCreek brand Level 2 charger would use. The charge unit was $600 and the extra output was only $250 to add to my panel. I did the math to determine my savings of NOT buying gas over the last year and a half. I was spending over $80 a week and that was before the prices really went crazy. It now costs me just under $12 a month to keep it charged up for trips to and from a doctor and big box stores as I'm not near them (about 40 miles away each way). I would be the FIRST person to say that EV's are NOT for everyone. Those that go long miles and to obscure areas far from interstates (where all the main high speed charging is found) would not do well. But those that charge in their garage or at a work station or some shopping areas that have chargers now could benefit. But I must admit the noise and drama free torque is rather enticing and you sure do get used to it. Let alone NO more oil changes or regular visits a ICE car needs. All in all I think it's a good thing to offer as an "Option" but should not be shoved down anyone's throat. But I can say this, once you've driven one they are very tempting indeed.
Nope, the law does not require installation of an charger.
If so..er...not...then - great. But wasn't the point of the whole OP?
EV's are considered "green" and anything that promotes green(or just about anything else) is considered a bad idea. Others have this weird libertarian view about housing(how dare the government require that anything done.)
I do think that this is a good law because I am pretty sure that gasoline powered internal combustion engines are on their slow way out. At the moment the only real problems are cost, slow charging, road trips and even then the top of the line EV can almost match an gasoline powered car in range(at an eye watering price). They do have problems at the moment but this law is one the helps address some of them(having housing ready to support EVs) reduces the price to switch.
EVs have a lot going for them in terms of CO2 emissions, Air quality, lower cost to maintain and fuel. And in theory should be cheaper than a gasoline powered car in time due to lower costs of assembly. You can even claim a national security point because they don't use gasoline for fuel. However they do need a little more time to be able to replace a gasoline car 100%, but they are a very fine city car or commuter car or even just for very short road trips.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
