Kenley drops out as sponsor of mass-transit bill (Indianapolis, Fishers: new construction, maintenance)

[Toxic Toast]

In the hearing, and I might have misunderstood, but they made it sound like if Marion County wanted to go alone, they could without the state's blessing.

[ischyros]

Ugh, now Mike Pence is expressing "concern" about the bill. And apparently there's talk that the democrats could vote against the bill just out of spite because they're unhappy about a completely unrelated bill. &$*@-ing politics!!!

https://www.indystar.com/article/201...nsit-expansion

"Sen. Jean Breaux, D-Indianapolis, said she would 'love to have mass transit and I think it’s very important,' but would vote against the transit bill if Senate Bill 621 advances. And she would try to persuade her fellow 12 Democrats to follow suit."

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Kenley bases his suspicion toward mass transit on the 60 percent of respondents to a poll on his website who declared opposition. As we all know, online polls are scientific. Shoot, perhaps we should also govern and legislate based off of message board comments, Facebook and Twitter.

Worse than that, I read that only 53% were opposed to it with 47% supporting it. A very narrow margin that could easily be swayed in support. Perhaps some of them don't know enough about it.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by ischyros

Ugh, so annoying. If you're against it, fine. But at least let this bill pass so that the PEOPLE CAN VOTE ON IT!!! Let the people have the final say, not special interest groups that never let the people have a say.

The problem is I want to know how the vote works. For example, is it broken down by county, by township, or by municipality? Even Hamilton Co. has what I would call a more rural area up north. I know a few people who live up that way and don't work in Marion Co/Indy. Maybe some would, if given this. I would rather have this be a vote via municipality, thus not everyone will be stuck paying the coming 1% tax hike need. Yes, it is only .3%, but face it, these things always have cost overruns, and more money will be needed. If this were to pass as it is written, from my understanding, a non-directly elected board will be in charge of taxation. When it is all said and done, there will be a 1% tax on income for this. Not .3%, not .7%, at least 1% (if not more).

Originally Posted by ischyros

By the way, this is a national tea party group (run by billionaires) that has no vested interest in Indianapolis, yet they're trying to pry into our way of life.

Um, everyone in this country has a vested interest in this sort of thing. If one group had their way, many in the metro area will be looking at mass transit taxation, higher property taxes, higher income taxes, higher excise taxes on vehicles, etc.. All I hear about are politicians complaining about money, for K-12, for mass transit, for road money, for various developments, etc.. As I posted in another thread, a household making $90K/year, is paying $20Kish in various federal, state, and local taxes. This accounts for someone paying $1,200 in property taxes which are at the cap rate of 1%, meaning a person with a $120K/home. Private businesses rely on people having money to spend, the higher the taxes go, the less money people have to spend. This is why out-of-state groups come in and do their bidding, because they either want people to keep more of their money, or want government to take more of the person's money.

Originally Posted by domergurl

I think they should toll up the interstates ... free to get on, pay to get off. Use the revenue to fix state roads and US hwys ... don't lease them.

I agree, so long as the tolls are based on vehicle weight and miles driven. Might help push the heavy stuff being driven across country onto rail based networks.

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

Voting against the bill was Doug Eckerty who represents zero counties asking for the referendum....

Those from outside are worried that down the road, the state will be asked to bailout those counties who for all we know, could end up needing not a .3% local income tax, but a 3-5% income tax. This is an issue on why those outside Indy metro area might not want it to pass. Everyone knows the initial price tags are lies. These projects always end up costing more in the long run. Plus, they are pushing a BRT plan, yet still want the full amount of money. They should have also changed the amount they wanted to tax. From $1.2B to $600M, and asked the tax rate only be .15%, not .3%. That would have went a long way in helping get this passed. Even on some of the conservative talk shows I've heard some support for more buses, more routes. Indy doesn't need the rail competent. It will siphon off a ton of money that could be used to expand bus service even further into the southern portion of the county. The rail portion was over 50% of the cost of the entire project. If they are serious about putting rail on the shelf, they should show it in the amount of money they are requesting.

Originally Posted by wh15395

Ballard and the city-county council have all the power in the world to raise Indianapolis income taxes .03% to fund the transit system.

So to fund Indy Connect, and the portion that benefits Hamilton Co. we need an additional .3% in income taxes. However, the entire Indy portion (sans the rail portion) can only be funded with an additional .03% hike? Or did you mean to say raise Indy/MC taxes by the same amount and just mistyped that figure?

Originally Posted by domergurl

I think it will be Marion County that votes no ... Hamilton would vote yes, particularly the people in Fishers.

There are two issues with Marion County. First they have a large lower income population, and some of these folks are pretty much living on welfare, as welfare is providing for the bulk of their needs. These people are going to vote yes for this in my opinion. The only problem I see with MC is that they are, for the most part, neglecting the bottom 1/3rd of the county. Why not run a bus out Southeastern Ave. all the way to Action, or at least Wanamaker? That being said, many of my co-workers who live in MC are saying they won't vote for it. They think it is unfair that big money HC gets the fancy rail line and they get a bus. They see it as nothing more than providing rich HC types a stress free and quick ride to their big money downtown Indy jobs.

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by indy_317

There are two issues with Marion County. First they have a large lower income population, and some of these folks are pretty much living on welfare, as welfare is providing for the bulk of their needs. These people are going to vote yes for this in my opinion. The only problem I see with MC is that they are, for the most part, neglecting the bottom 1/3rd of the county. Why not run a bus out Southeastern Ave. all the way to Action, or at least Wanamaker? That being said, many of my co-workers who live in MC are saying they won't vote for it. They think it is unfair that big money HC gets the fancy rail line and they get a bus. They see it as nothing more than providing rich HC types a stress free and quick ride to their big money downtown Indy jobs.

The original plan had many other rails line. Along Washington, down to Greenwood, out to the airport. But so many people balked at it, they replaced those with bus-rapid transit. The rail line to Noblesville has been left in simply because a majority of the rail line already exists. And there will be several stops in Marion County. In fact, there will be more stops in Marion County outside downtown than in Hamilton County. I don't understand how the rail line wouldn't help people in Marion County at all. I have no problem with rail lines to other areas, but too many people don't like the cost and the fixed nature of it. And there's still talk that they will just replace the rail portion with bus-rapid transit as well because too many people seem to have an issue with rail.

[grmasterb]

IndyConnect has stated that rail from Noblesville is not firm. It could wind up being a cheaper BRT line.

As for Indy_317's statement that outside legislators are concerned about having to later bail out Marion and Hamilton counties, I find that funny given that studies have shown that taxpayers from Cental Indiana pay the lion's share of the freight in this state.

[wh15395]

Originally Posted by indy_317

So to fund Indy Connect, and the portion that benefits Hamilton Co. we need an additional .3% in income taxes. However, the entire Indy portion (sans the rail portion) can only be funded with an additional .03% hike? Or did you mean to say raise Indy/MC taxes by the same amount and just mistyped that figure?

I meant that they could just raise taxes to increase funding for IndyGo and do 90% of what the IndyConnect plan wants to do within Marion County. Just leave the referendum and the suburban counties out of it.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

As for Indy_317's statement that outside legislators are concerned about having to later bail out Marion and Hamilton counties, I find that funny given that studies have shown that taxpayers from Cental Indiana pay the lion's share of the freight in this state.

Well, that is just more incentive on why some may balk at the idea unless there are some sort controls to not upset their gravy train.

[Toxic Toast]

Yesterday there was a car accident on I-69 northbound in front of my office complex, taking out two lanes of traffic. The traffic backup was 7 miles long. 7 miles. I am not going to say anything else, the application of this to a discussion on transpiration alternatives should not need any explaining.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

Yesterday there was a car accident on I-69 northbound in front of my office complex, taking out two lanes of traffic. The traffic backup was 7 miles long. 7 miles. I am not going to say anything else, the application of this to a discussion on transpiration alternatives should not need any explaining.

wow. you would think people would take the backway to get into fishers.