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Old 10-04-2015, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 7,088,325 times
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Indy is literally the crossroads of America. It is solidly Midwest. Perhaps it is more country than other larger metro areas. I went to Purdue in West Lafayette and Washington University in St. Louis and found more rural, country accents in West Lafayette even though it is almost 200 miles north of St. Louis.

I also find that any major metro area will have many transplants who do not share the dialect of their region. This is especially obvious in cosmopolitan areas of the south like Atlanta.

Breaded tenderloin and sugar cream pie ( especially sugar cream pie) are staple foods of Indiana. You can't even get sugar cream pie in Chicago (except for Hoosier mama pie- real place). Just because a place has a bunch of cracker barrels does not make it southern. We have tons of soul food places in Chicago ( way more than Indy) and we are not southern but we do have a lot of black transplants and their descendants from the south.

Indy is known for auto racing and other sports. Bob and Tom are originally out of Michigan but their country brand of humor plays well in Indy. Some of the stations in Chicago carry it as well but most of our blue collar listeners listen to other local broadcasters.

And maybe that is the crux of it. The more blue collar an area is the more southern it appears regardless of geography for cities in the Midwest. In upper Midwest more blue collar areas sound more Canadian.
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:47 AM
 
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Default I'm not saying Indianapolis is southern but ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Indy is literally the crossroads of America. It is solidly Midwest. Perhaps it is more country than other larger metro areas. I went to Purdue in West Lafayette and Washington University in St. Louis and found more rural, country accents in West Lafayette even though it is almost 200 miles north of St. Louis.

I also find that any major metro area will have many transplants who do not share the dialect of their region. This is especially obvious in cosmopolitan areas of the south like Atlanta.

Breaded tenderloin and sugar cream pie ( especially sugar cream pie) are staple foods of Indiana. You can't even get sugar cream pie in Chicago (except for Hoosier mama pie- real place). Just because a place has a bunch of cracker barrels does not make it southern. We have tons of soul food places in Chicago ( way more than Indy) and we are not southern but we do have a lot of black transplants and their descendants from the south.

Indy is known for auto racing and other sports. Bob and Tom are originally out of Michigan but their country brand of humor plays well in Indy. Some of the stations in Chicago carry it as well but most of our blue collar listeners listen to other local broadcasters.

And maybe that is the crux of it. The more blue collar an area is the more southern it appears regardless of geography for cities in the Midwest. In upper Midwest more blue collar areas sound more Canadian.
It's not just the black population who arrived from the south during the Great Migration but there is a larger white population from Appalachian America. I'm Indianapolis born, bred and raised. Lived there during the 50s, 60s and early 70s. I clearly recall the favor of the city before the construction of I-65 and the outer belt system (I-465). Areas were separated from downtown. Entire blocks were erased. The interstate greatly impacted Fountain Square, the Old Northside, Fletcher Place, St. Joseph and other parts of Southside. South Side Indianapolis had a southern character. Washington St. (I-70) was called the real Mason-Dixon Line. Fountain Square was literally the South. Most of the population was Appalachia. Richard Lugar, who was the mayor at that time, commissioned a study called "The Appalachian in Indianapolis" to study if Indianapolis large Appalachian community needed special help like other minority populations. Fountain Square was ethnic. The residents weren't from Europe or Mexico. They were from from West Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee. These people didn't just disappear they blended into general population. This explains why Indianapolis has so many southern restaurants. If you think Indianapolis southern restaurants comprise of a just few cracker barrels and African American soul food places you are sadly mistaken.
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:58 PM
 
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Appalachian is not necessarily Southern. It's country, but it ain't synonymous with the South. Ask most Indy residents if they think Southern culture is strong in Indy and the answer is probably not really.

Also have you considered that Indy could eat up Chicago, Philly, Baltimore, OKC, Louisville, etc. simply because of its sheer area? Maybe the reason Indy has as many Southern restaurants as Southern cities is simply because it is a city much larger than practically all Northern Cities by land mass. You claim Indy has more Southern restaurants than indisputably Southern 757 region. How about a fair comparison? Indy is around 300 Sq mi if not more. All of the cities you listed don't come close to that except Chicago. Even then it's not close. PS. We have Cracker Barrels in Chicago, for those wondering.

Southern populations exist all over the North but they don't overall make the North more Southern because of it. They bring along facets of their culture. That is what they do.

Pittsburgh is physically in Appalachia. Nobody calls it Southern. Nobody save for maybe some New Englanders poking fun at it. Now because Indy has some Appalachians living in it we say the Southern culture has largely influenced it?

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 10-04-2015 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:30 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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My parents were from rural Kentucky and had many relatives move to northern cities, mainly Cincinnati and Northern Indiana. Accents seem to go away at a rate of 50% per generation, often one sibling retains a Southern accent while another sibling speaks like their classmates. I've noticed a similar trend in college sports team fandom, about half continue to cheer for the team of their old state (in my family's case Kentucky) while half place their allegiance with their new state's team. Religion is the last to go, many stay in the same type of church. Food stays similar but local foods are added in.

In any case a couple generations in an people are totally acculturated. Bottom line is people's home is where they grew up. Do you even know where your great grandpa lived? Do I root for Penn State because 7 generations ago most of my family lived there before moving South? Heck no.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:45 AM
 
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Your soliloquy doesn't explain why a Midwest city like Indy has so many southern restaurant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Appalachian is not necessarily Southern. It's country, but it ain't synonymous with the South. Ask most Indy residents if they think Southern culture is strong in Indy and the answer is probably not really ... Pittsburgh is physically in Appalachia. Nobody calls it Southern.
It is true that Appalachia isn't necessarily Southern and it is also true that Pittsburgh is considered part of Appalachia. However would you agree that Appalachia covers 13 states; New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi? All but three of the 13 states are clearly in the south or what is traditionally considered to be the south. In other words the vast majority of Appalachia is closer to being southern than not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Also have you considered that Indy could eat up Chicago, Philly, Baltimore, OKC, Louisville, etc. simply because of its sheer area? Maybe the reason Indy has as many Southern restaurants as Southern cities is simply because it is a city much larger than practically all Northern Cities by land mass. You claim Indy has more Southern restaurants than indisputably Southern 757 region. How about a fair comparison? Indy is around 300 Sq mi if not more. All of the cities you listed don't come close to that except Chicago. Even then it's not close. PS. We have Cracker Barrels in Chicago, for those wondering.
This one is a head scratcher. You have a couple of errors in fact. Indianapolis is 364.1 sq mi. OKC is 601.11 sq mi, and the 757 region (Hampton Roads, Va.) covers a much larger land area than Indianapolis. For example Suffolk, Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are in Hampton Roads. Suffolk is 400.2 sq mi, Chesapeake 340.8 sq mi, Virginia Beach 249.0 sq mi. Those areas are larger than Indianapolis. I don't understand why you brought the Windy City into the discussion other then to rep it but the cities I listed are all larger than Chicago. Here's a little trivia: there are more seafood restaurants in Hampton Roads than southern restaurants.

Hampton Roads seafood restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/sea-food

Hampton Roads southern restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/southern

Three pages of southern restaurants vs. 14 pages of seafood restaurants.

For the record I AM NOT ARGUING that Indianapolis is southern. I'm only saying that southern cuisine restaurants (NOT JUST CRACKER BARREL) are in abundance in Indianapolis and the 317.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,367 posts, read 14,405,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
Your soliloquy doesn't explain why a Midwest city like Indy has so many southern restaurant.

For the record I AM NOT ARGUING that Indianapolis is southern. I'm only saying that southern cuisine restaurants (NOT JUST CRACKER BARREL) are in abundance in Indianapolis and the 317.
Looking at the restaurants on the list you provided, there are a lot of restaurants that are reaches to point to as southern.

City BBQ - import from Ohio. On your list of "southern" restaurants.
Zacky's Hot Dogs & Smokehouse BBQ - no idea why this is southern, unless it is again the BBQ thing making it southern
Patties of Jamaica - Jamaica is south of here, so.....
Famous Dave's - chain founded in Wisconsin and HQ'd in Minnesota. The essence of southern America.

I am not saying there are not some great southern restaurants in Indianapolis, I am saying your list is wildly off-base as a legitimate source. By the way, the URL you linked for Indy was Louisville.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:26 AM
 
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Born and raised just south of Indy.

Lived close to Mpls for much of the past 2 decades.

Definitively: Indy is MUCH more like Louisville.

Why? Cultural heritage. The late 18th and early 19th c migration pattern led people up from KY into the IN area. These people had a Scots/Irish or English heritage. Of course, people from many more places came in, but the core culture survives. Mpls had a very strong early Scandinavian immigration. Yes, Yankees were very early settlers too, but they generally came from New England. The core culture in MN reflects Scandinavian behaviors and beliefs. Think - why is MN Blue and IN Red? Core culture really does matter.

This difference in cultural heritage and modern core culture is VERY apparant to anyone who has lived in any of these places.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
I'm not arguing that Indianapolis is a southern city. I'm only pointing out that southern cuisine looms heavily into its food culture despite the fact that it is a Midwestern city. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face but I seriously doubt if you can defend your position. There is a market for southern food in Indianapolis because PEOPLE EAT SOUTHERN COOKING in Indianapolis. Indy has more southern food restaurants than Columbus, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Baltimore, and Kansas City. It is on par with Louisville and Oklahoma City. I currently live Hampton Roads Virginia (which is part of the South) and there are more southern restaurants in Indianapolis than Hampton Roads. Cities in Carolinas, Tennessee and below is where southern food restaurant market becomes saturated and exceeds Indy.

Hampton Roads Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/southern

Indianapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/indianapolis/...rants/southern

Baltimore Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/baltimore/restaurants/southern
If you read the Indy list, probably a third of the "Southern" restaurants are categorized as barbecue. Barbecue is popular in the South, but I wouldn't call it "Southern fare" in and of itself.

People are going to eat about any kind of cooking where you get a large enough group of people together and Indy is a border region. It doesn't surprise me that Southern cooking would be reasonably popular here, but the city still isn't Southern, or even borderline Southern to me as a native Southerner.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:45 AM
 
1,523 posts, read 1,457,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
Looking at the restaurants on the list you provided, there are a lot of restaurants that are reaches to point to as southern.

City BBQ - import from Ohio. On your list of "southern" restaurants.
Zacky's Hot Dogs & Smokehouse BBQ - no idea why this is southern, unless it is again the BBQ thing making it southern
Patties of Jamaica - Jamaica is south of here, so.....
Famous Dave's - chain founded in Wisconsin and HQ'd in Minnesota. The essence of southern America.

I am not saying there are not some great southern restaurants in Indianapolis, I am saying your list is wildly off-base as a legitimate source. By the way, the URL you linked for Indy was Louisville.
I totally agree that some restaurants may be a reach however their methodology in what is considered southern food appears to be consistent. For instance, barbecue is a southern cooking technique that over time turn national. They list barbecue places for all cities. So if it is a reach for Indy then it is a reach for Louisville, Memphis, St. Louis, Nashville, Hampton Roads, OKC and Raleigh as well. I'm just using this as a guide.

Indianapolis: https://www.zomato.com/indianapolis/...rants/southern

Louisville: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/re...outhern?page=6

St. Louis: https://www.zomato.com/st-louis/restaurants/southern

Memphis: https://www.zomato.com/memphis/resta...outhern?page=6

OKC: https://www.zomato.com/oklahoma-city...rants/southern

Nashville: https://www.zomato.com/nashville/res...outhern?page=6

Hampton Roads: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/southern

Raleigh/Durham/Cary/Chapel Hill Research Triangle Area: https://www.zomato.com/research-tria...rants/southern
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
25,709 posts, read 19,110,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
I totally agree that some restaurants may be a reach however their methodology in what is considered southern food appears to be consistent. For instance, barbecue is a southern cooking technique that over time turn national. They list barbecue places for all cities. So if it is a reach for Indy then it is a reach for Louisville, Memphis, St. Louis, Nashville, Hampton Roads, OKC and Raleigh as well. I'm just using this as a guide.

Indianapolis: https://www.zomato.com/indianapolis/...rants/southern

Louisville: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/re...outhern?page=6

St. Louis: https://www.zomato.com/st-louis/restaurants/southern

Memphis: https://www.zomato.com/memphis/resta...outhern?page=6

OKC: https://www.zomato.com/oklahoma-city...rants/southern

Nashville: https://www.zomato.com/nashville/res...outhern?page=6

Hampton Roads: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/southern

Raleigh/Durham/Cary/Chapel Hill Research Triangle Area: https://www.zomato.com/research-tria...rants/southern
Kansas City has excellent barbeque that's local, but it's not a Southern city. You're also going to find chains like Famous Dave's in about every major city, Southern or not. When I lived in Des Moines, there was an excellent local barbeque place called Jethro's that even had Alabama White and Georgia mustard sauce. Does that mean DSM is a Southern city? Not at all.

Most types of food can be found in most larger metros these days.
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