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Old 10-05-2015, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
If you read the Indy list, probably a third of the "Southern" restaurants are categorized as barbecue. Barbecue is popular in the South, but I wouldn't call it "Southern fare" in and of itself.

People are going to eat about any kind of cooking where you get a large enough group of people together and Indy is a border region. It doesn't surprise me that Southern cooking would be reasonably popular here, but the city still isn't Southern, or even borderline Southern to me as a native Southerner.
They are using barbecue as a southern food as Toxic Toast tactfully pointed out. Before I go any further I want to be very clear this is about southern food not southern culture just food. With that said if you don't think is a southern fare then were will just have to agree to disagree. At any rate here is the history of BBQ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbec..._United_States

The Evolution of American Barbecue | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian

An Illustrated History of Barbecue in America | First We Feast
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
I'm just using this as a guide.
It would be fair to say that you need a better guide.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Born and raised just south of Indy.

Lived close to Mpls for much of the past 2 decades.

Definitively: Indy is MUCH more like Louisville.

Why? Cultural heritage. The late 18th and early 19th c migration pattern led people up from KY into the IN area. These people had a Scots/Irish or English heritage. Of course, people from many more places came in, but the core culture survives. Mpls had a very strong early Scandinavian immigration. Yes, Yankees were very early settlers too, but they generally came from New England. The core culture in MN reflects Scandinavian behaviors and beliefs. Think - why is MN Blue and IN Red? Core culture really does matter.

This difference in cultural heritage and modern core culture is VERY apparant to anyone who has lived in any of these places.
Scotch Irish heritage is common throughout the Midland/Midwest region. It is what makes places like Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Louisville similar. In this way, they are separate from the true "North".
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Scotch Irish heritage is common throughout the Midland/Midwest region. It is what makes places like Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Louisville similar. In this way, they are separate from the true "North".
Based on everything I've learned about the Scots Irish (and that being my co-dominate ethnic group, along with English) I'd disagree. They mostly came to America through the port of Philadelphia in the 1700s then moved down the Appalachian Mts to the Carolinas. Some did move west through PA but those areas later were settled by other Euro groups, so they aren't the dominate culture. Scots Irish so dominate the White Southern gene pool that Scots Irish often means White Southerner.

Generally the average Euro-American in Indianapolis, St Louis, or Columbus is generally German dominant with some Irish, New England English, and some White Southern Scots Irish/ Jamestown English / Scottish / German gumbo.

Now Indy and Cincinnati probably received way more White Southern immigrants than anywhere else in the North. Southern Indiana itself was mostly settled by Kentuckians.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:43 PM
 
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^ So in terms of the title of this thread, we agree.

Indianapolis has a modern core culture much more similar to Scots Irish Louisville than it does to Scandinavian Minneapolis.
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
^ So in terms of the title of this thread, we agree.

Indianapolis has a modern core culture much more similar to Scots Irish Louisville than it does to Scandinavian Minneapolis.
Louisville is not a true Southern city ethnically (ie mostly English / Scots Irish). Euro-American Louisville natives are a mix of German, Scots Irish/ Jamestown English, and English Catholics who first settled in Maryland and then near Bardstown KY and moved to Louisville in large numbers.

My view Indy = Cincinnati.

Mostly German but with more White Southern influence than any other Northern cities.

I haven't been to the Twin Cities but have been to Milwaukee, recently actually. I was blown about by how different Wisconsin felt even compare to Northern Indiana. Indy is more like Louisville than Milwaukee IMO so definitely more similar than Minneapolis.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Louisville is not a true Southern city ethnically (ie mostly English / Scots Irish). Euro-American Louisville natives are a mix of German, Scots Irish/ Jamestown English, and English Catholics who first settled in Maryland and then near Bardstown KY and moved to Louisville in large numbers.

My view Indy = Cincinnati.

Mostly German but with more White Southern influence than any other Northern cities.

I haven't been to the Twin Cities but have been to Milwaukee, recently actually. I was blown about by how different Wisconsin felt even compare to Northern Indiana. Indy is more like Louisville than Milwaukee IMO so definitely more similar than Minneapolis.
Census, you are also leaving out Louisville's heavy French influence. In the early 1800s, when Napoleon was going nuts in Europe, many French came to Louisville via New Orleans. Portland, Shippingport, The Pointe, and Corn Island were heavily French. These areas looked JUST like the French Quarter in New Orleans. Sadly, Louisville lost about 90% of these neighborhoods to urban renewal, I-64, and mostly, river flooding. (The Pointe and Corn Island are underwater. So is much of Shippingport and the wharf portions of Portland, where the French lived. It wasn't until the MID nineteenth century that Louisville received the large Influx of Scotch-Irish and Germans. That is when working class, industrial neighborhoods formed in the city: Limerick and Irish Hill for the Irish. The Germans settled everywhere, not only the areas around Germantown but Russel, Portland, Phoenix Hill, and even the Original Highlands. The Italians and Jews lived, together, in a small neighborhood near the Haymarket that is now the Medical District. One of the old Italianate homes (it is blue) still stands across from the Jewish ER today. Louisville by 1890 had several German based brewers. There was a small second wave of French who settled in Paristown Pointe, on the edge of Germantown. But by the Civil War, Louisville was heavily German/Irish, and very industrial and working class. This was Louisville's heyday, and when many of its grand buildings, many of which were lost to flooding, tornadoes, or urban renewal, were built. Atlanta was rather insignificant at that point, and Dallas, Houston, and Miami didn't hardly exist. New Orleans was king of the south, and Louisville was not far behind, capitalizing on its river location as it was a Midwest/Southern hybrid city. Louisville could import goods from the south via raw materials, and food (think cotton, peanuts, fruit, etc) and sell it or manufacture the raw materials into goods to trade with the north and northeast, Louisville even had one of the first professional baseball teams in the National League, the Colonels. They were there along with the Cubs, Reds, Cardinals, etc!

In many ways, the city has come full circle. Much of its renaissance in the last decade has been capitalizing on this treasure trove of architecture that was established by these German and Irish immigrants of the mid to late nineteenth century. Almost every few months, a new, neighborhood brewery is announced. There are now dozens counting the 1 to 5 in every urban neighborhood. Louisville's neighborhoods are identifiable, walkable, unique, and eclectic. The city is capitalizing again on the vice's that founded it, such as bourbon/whiskey, food and hospitality, and strip clubs, prostitution, and gambling. Louisville was a grand city....but it was also a gritty river town where people went to get in trouble (and they still come to drink in her bars till 4 am and celebrate in a city that has more festivals than almost any city in America).

It is an exciting time to live in this city when you understand the history of it.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Louisville is not a true Southern city ethnically (ie mostly English / Scots Irish). Euro-American Louisville natives are a mix of German, Scots Irish/ Jamestown English, and English Catholics who first settled in Maryland and then near Bardstown KY and moved to Louisville in large numbers.

My view Indy = Cincinnati.

Mostly German but with more White Southern influence than any other Northern cities.

I haven't been to the Twin Cities but have been to Milwaukee, recently actually. I was blown about by how different Wisconsin felt even compare to Northern Indiana. Indy is more like Louisville than Milwaukee IMO so definitely more similar than Minneapolis.
Even if you buy the argument that Louisville is not fully Southern, it is located in a Southern state and is much closer proximity to Southerners than Indy.
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:15 PM
 
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The culture of each city is its own and I don't see carryover from either city culturally into the other.

Climate in Indy is on the same type as Minny but warmer. Climate in Louisville is in a different zone.

I don't think the cities share much in common. Indy is more like Cincy which I guess makes it sort of like Louisville. Minneapolis is not much similar to Indy. One thing they do share in common is that neither was ever a part of the South unlike Louisville. Some can make the case Louisville is as Southern as Baltimore but Indy is basically 0 degrees Southern even if it's not a fully Northern city. I just haven't ever heard of anyone there consider it Southern and I can't same the same for Louisville. In that way, Indy and Louisville are separate.
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:20 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Kansas City has excellent barbeque that's local, but it's not a Southern city. You're also going to find chains like Famous Dave's in about every major city, Southern or not. When I lived in Des Moines, there was an excellent local barbeque place called Jethro's that even had Alabama White and Georgia mustard sauce. Does that mean DSM is a Southern city? Not at all.

Most types of food can be found in most larger metros these days.
Kansas City is located just to the north of the Upland South Ozarks region and is most definitely not a Northern city either. It is in the "transition zone" between the North and South.
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