Indianapolis more like Minneapolis or Louisville (Lafayette, Columbus: chapel, move to, beach)

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by John7777

Some people consider Indianapolis to be the northernmost Southern city. In terms of the language, it's on the border between north and south. No grits with breakfast, though. You have to drive further south for that. It used to be a big KKK place. All things considered, it's not as nice as either Minneapolis or Louisville. It's sort of one of those places that just doesn't matter.

By "some" you mean just you? Here are cities that have been called "Northernmost Southern city" by multiple people.

Louisville
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Baltimore
DC
Philadelphia*

*(albeit only jokingly by Linguistics Professor William Labor because of the way they pronounce some words like house or fire though this has nothing to do with culture)

Note that Indy isn't on that list. Also, note I don't actually believe Philly is Southern in any way.

[censusdata]

I recently took a short vacation to greater Chicago, including southern Wisconsin and SW Michigan. I was surprised how different Wisconsin felt. Way cleaner and accent is very different from Chicago or Northern Indiana. Very few people there have neutral/ standard accents, it's like being in Fargo. Different govt philiosy in WI and MN too, more like Canada with emphasis on high taxes and high expectations of gov't. Indiana is more Southern in govt, with focus on low taxes and acceptance of worse education as a result (though with pockets of high standards). Great Lakes area from Chicago to Buffalo is Midwestern but has a different feel than areas to the south like St Louis, Indy, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc. Those 4 are very similar.

Louisville is a hodge podge of Midwest and South. I've lived here since 2002 and I don't know how to describe it. Very Catholic / Germanic and had more of an industrial economy like the Midwest, but also with lots of people of Appalachian and Mid South heritage. This place has huge evangelical churches but Catholic HS football is also huge. Accents are all over the map even among people with roots here going back 100 years. Basically Louisville is Memphis and Cincinnati put in a blender. Just add water and let set for 220 years.

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

I've heard it said that even the Louisville accent isn't overly Southern, and they're in the South, albeit in a disputed Southern state. But the South never claimed Indiana and even in Louisville border towns they have signage all over the place takings jabs at Kentucky's slave history while they depict Indiana in a more positive light. Just walk on River Road in Jeffersonville and look for these posted signs along the road.

That's not to say New Albany, Clarksville, and Jville aren't Southern in culture. They do associate with the South, but it's telling they consider themselves more like Kentucky than like Indiana, which should tell you something about how Indiana isn't seen very Southern by Indiana natives who consider themselves more tied to the state south of the Ohio (or Ohi'ah as they pronounce it).

Inside I-265 in Indiana a large percent of the population are Kentuckians who moved to Louisville for work but preferred the cheaper housing and more rural feel of the Indiana side. A few towns in Southern Indiana also were heavily settled by Kentuckians after WW2 if they had a large factory that actively recruited Eastern KY for workers. Salem and Pekin are examples. Most of those areas were originally settled by Kentuckians in the early 1800s too.

I still a lot of neutral accents here like you would hear in Central IN. Also a lot of Southern accents. It's a mix.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by censusdata

I recently took a short vacation to greater Chicago, including southern Wisconsin and SW Michigan. I was surprised how different Wisconsin felt. Way cleaner and accent is very different from Chicago or Northern Indiana. Very few people there have neutral/ standard accents, it's like being in Fargo. Different govt philiosy in WI and MN too, more like Canada with emphasis on high taxes and high expectations of gov't. Indiana is more Southern in govt, with focus on low taxes and acceptance of worse education as a result (though with pockets of high standards). Great Lakes area from Chicago to Buffalo is Midwestern but has a different feel than areas to the south like St Louis, Indy, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc. Those 4 are very similar.

Louisville is a hodge podge of Midwest and South. I've lived here since 2002 and I don't know how to describe it. Very Catholic / Germanic and had more of an industrial economy like the Midwest, but also with lots of people of Appalachian and Mid South heritage. This place has huge evangelical churches but Catholic HS football is also huge. Accents are all over the map even among people with roots here going back 100 years. Basically Louisville is Memphis and Cincinnati put in a blender. Just add water and let set for 220 years.

That "feel" that stretches across the Great Lakes isn't a "Midwestern" feel, but a Great Lakes, Northern City feel. Much different than its cousins elsewhere in the Great Plains.

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

For those that said Indy has a Southern flair, have you EVER been to the South?

Indy doesn't have Southern food, Southern accents, Southern dress, nor Southern ties. Are there some transplants in Indy from the South? Obviously. As there are in Chicago but nobody is calling that Southern.

I'm currently live in the South. Indianapolis has plenty of southern food or southern style food restaurants in the capital city. Any city in the United States that has a sizable African American population is going to have restaurants that serve soul food which is actually southern food. I'm not saying Indianapolis is southern but food wise the south is solidly represented.


Louisville Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Indianapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Minneapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/twin-cities/restaurants/southern

St. Louis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/st-louis/restaurants/southern

I included St. Louis as a comparison because it is commonly referred to as the most southern city in the Midwest.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Dyadic

I'm currently live in the South. Indianapolis has plenty of southern food or southern style food restaurants in the capital city. Any city in the United States that has a sizable African American population is going to have restaurants that serve soul food which is actually southern food. I'm not saying Indianapolis is southern but food wise the south is solidly represented.


Louisville Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Indianapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Minneapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/twin-cities/restaurants/southern

St. Louis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/st-louis/restaurants/southern

I included St. Louis as a comparison because it is commonly referred to as the most southern city in the Midwest.

Indy has Cracker Barrel, too.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Dyadic

I'm currently live in the South. Indianapolis has plenty of southern food or southern style food restaurants in the capital city. Any city in the United States that has a sizable African American population is going to have restaurants that serve soul food which is actually southern food. I'm not saying Indianapolis is southern but food wise the south is solidly represented.


Louisville Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Indianapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/louisville/restaurants/southern

Minneapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/twin-cities/restaurants/southern

St. Louis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/st-louis/restaurants/southern

I included St. Louis as a comparison because it is commonly referred to as the most southern city in the Midwest.

Ohhhhhhkay then why don't we just throw Philadelphia into the Southern category due to their strong Black presence with ties to the South and their almost Southern accent.

In Chicago, Southern food and even Southern accents are aplenty in the Black population. No one has ever called Chicago a Southern city.

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Ohhhhhhkay then why don't we just throw Philadelphia into the Southern category due to their strong Black presence with ties to the South and their almost Southern accent.

In Chicago, Southern food and even Southern accents are aplenty in the Black population. No one has ever called Chicago a Southern city.

I never said Indy was southern. I said Indy had plenty of southern restaurants and I posted the links to point out an inaccuracy in your logic. You said Indianapolis doesn't have southern food which is totally is true. I also wanted point to show that Minneapolis has far fewer southern restaurants especially given the fact it has well over twice the population. The St. Louis link showed that St. Louis, which many posters on CD claim is the most southern city in the Midwest, has less southern restaurants than Indianapolis.

Since you brought up Philadelphia here is the link showing it's southern restaurants. Philly has a sizeable number but still not as many as Indianapolis and Louisville.

Philadelphia southern restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/philadelphia/...rants/southern

Chicago which has a larger population base than Philadelphia has fewer southern restaurants than Indy or Louisville.

Chicago southern restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/philadelphia/...rants/southern

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Dyadic

I never said Indy was southern. I said Indy had plenty of southern restaurants and I posted the links to point out an inaccuracy in your logic. You said Indianapolis doesn't have southern food which is totally is true. I also wanted point to show that Minneapolis has far fewer southern restaurants especially given the fact it has well over twice the population. The St. Louis link showed that St. Louis, which many posters on CD claim is the most southern city in the Midwest, has less southern restaurants than Indianapolis.

Since you brought up Philadelphia here is the link showing it's southern restaurants. Philly has a sizeable number but still not as many as Indianapolis and Louisville.

Philadelphia southern restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/philadelphia/...rants/southern

Chicago which has a larger population base than Philadelphia has fewer southern restaurants than Indy or Louisville.

Chicago southern restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/philadelphia/...rants/southern

Ok, the presence of Southern restaurants doesn't make the local cuisine Southern. I should have phrased it that way. Indianapolis may have southern restaurants but it isn't a southern city when it comes to its own food. Louisville on the other hand has Southernisms in its own cuisine.

It's like saying Chicago is an "Indian" city because Indian restaurants are well represented. No, if the local cuisine isn't Southern, then the presence of Southern restaurants doesn't make the place more Southern.

I just can't understand this constant moving of the South further North. Do it with St. Louis maybe because at least at one point Missouri was in the South. Same with OKC, Louisville, DC, and Baltimore. These cities at one point in history were Southern so argue that til you're blue in the face. I definitely will. But Indy? South has to end somewhere and Indy's culture is Middle American, not Southern.

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Ok, the presence of Southern restaurants doesn't make the local cuisine Southern. I should have phrased it that way. Indianapolis may have southern restaurants but it isn't a southern city when it comes to its own food. Louisville on the other hand has Southernisms in its own cuisine.

It's like saying Chicago is an "Indian" city because Indian restaurants are well represented. No, if the local cuisine isn't Southern, then the presence of Southern restaurants doesn't make the place more Southern.

I just can't understand this constant moving of the South further North. Do it with St. Louis maybe because at least at one point Missouri was in the South. Same with OKC, Louisville, DC, and Baltimore. These cities at one point in history were Southern so argue that til you're blue in the face. I definitely will. But Indy? South has to end somewhere and Indy's culture is Middle American, not Southern.

I'm not arguing that Indianapolis is a southern city. I'm only pointing out that southern cuisine looms heavily into its food culture despite the fact that it is a Midwestern city. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face but I seriously doubt if you can defend your position. There is a market for southern food in Indianapolis because PEOPLE EAT SOUTHERN COOKING in Indianapolis. Indy has more southern food restaurants than Columbus, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Baltimore, and Kansas City. It is on par with Louisville and Oklahoma City. I currently live Hampton Roads Virginia (which is part of the South) and there are more southern restaurants in Indianapolis than Hampton Roads. Cities in Carolinas, Tennessee and below is where southern food restaurant market becomes saturated and exceeds Indy.

Hampton Roads Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/hampton-roads...rants/southern

Indianapolis Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/indianapolis/...rants/southern

Baltimore Southern Restaurants: https://www.zomato.com/baltimore/restaurants/southern