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Lots of homeless people in Lower Manhattan/San Francisco/Boston/etc.
They'll never get rid of all of them, but they don't mind pushing them out. When Chicago tore down the south side projects and many of those folks were forced to the south suburbs, do you think Chicago city leaders shed a tear? Do you think DC leaders care that poor folks are being priced out to suburban MD and VA?
But let's be honest, haven't the large urban cities that have successfully reinvented themselves pushed out the pesky poor people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb
But let's be honest, haven't the large urban cities that have successfully reinvented themselves pushed out the pesky poor people?
I guess it all depends on your definition of "success". Truth is, many of these so-called success stories have developed to the point that these cities are becoming unlivable to most, and in the process are becoming as homogenous as the suburbs surrounding them once were.
Manhattan, for example, is probably the most gentrified urban area in the nation. While this has reduced crime, and brought investment into the city infrastructure, it has also in the process destroyed or priced out many of those unique institutions and immigrants that made it an attractive and desirable place to live in the first place.
The world famous theater district for example, has been shuttering performance venues left and right, because they can't afford the rapidly inflating rent.
Little Italy, once the nations largest Italian enclave and migrant center for the first time last year had zero Italian-born immigrants living in its boundaries, and saw nearly two dozen businesses priced out -- less than a dozen remain open today.
Soho, once the nations art mecca, has become one of the city's most exclusive and expensive neighborhoods.
Chinatown has been facing a similar fate, with the Chinese population rapidly diminishing for the first time the past few years.
Greenwich Village, once a center for music and counterculture and the oldest urban LGBT enclave in the US has also been dying out over the last few decades. Nearly all of the LGBT bars along Christopher Street, where the gay rights movement started, have been forced to close. The bohemian residents have been disappearing as they die off and their rent controlled dwellings are replaced by vacation condos for the super rich.
Harlem, long the nations largest African American enclave and easily the most influential, is rapidly disappearing.
In the wake of all this, thousands of the bodegos and neighborhood shops across the city --quintessential Manhattan institutions-- are being shuttered and replaced with CVS, DuaneReade, Starbucks, and other corporate stores you can find in Anytown, USA, because these giants are the only places that can afford the steep rents and property costs. In turn, this means that the "city that never sleeps" is closing earlier and earlier.
Tourism has exploded, and the millions of tourists increase in number every year -- unfortunately they're met with a city that has become Disney-esque. Fashionistas will find the Garment District replaced with condos. Rock lovers will find world famed CBGBs forcibly closed for a bank branch. Foodies that don't have deep pockets will find the famed restaurants shuttered and many of the street vendors diminishing due to police harassment and permit limitations.
Homelessness is swelling, and at the same time the NYPD are becoming increasingly militarized. In short, a city famed for its diversity and its spontaneousness and its creativity and its history and its rebelousness is becoming a nonexistent shell.
Some here may think Im anti-progress or anti-growth (Im actually not), but if the only way some of you measure progress or growth is by real estate values and how few poor people there are... then your definition of good city sounds like a hellish dystopian place to live anyhow.
I guess it all depends on your definition of "success". Truth is, many of these so-called success stories have developed to the point that these cities are becoming unlivable to most, and in the process are becoming as homogenous as the suburbs surrounding them once were.
Manhattan, for example, is probably the most gentrified urban area in the nation. While this has reduced crime, and brought investment into the city infrastructure, it has also in the process destroyed or priced out many of those unique institutions and immigrants that made it an attractive and desirable place to live in the first place.
The world famous theater district for example, has been shuttering performance venues left and right, because they can't afford the rapidly inflating rent.
Little Italy, once the nations largest Italian enclave and migrant center for the first time last year had zero Italian-born immigrants living in its boundaries, and saw nearly two dozen businesses priced out -- less than a dozen remain open today.
Soho, once the nations art mecca, has become one of the city's most exclusive and expensive neighborhoods.
Chinatown has been facing a similar fate, with the Chinese population rapidly diminishing for the first time the past few years.
Greenwich Village, once a center for music and counterculture and the oldest urban LGBT enclave in the US has also been dying out over the last few decades. Nearly all of the LGBT bars along Christopher Street, where the gay rights movement started, have been forced to close. The bohemian residents have been disappearing as they die off and their rent controlled dwellings are replaced by vacation condos for the super rich.
Harlem, long the nations largest African American enclave and easily the most influential, is rapidly disappearing.
In the wake of all this, thousands of the bodegos and neighborhood shops across the city --quintessential Manhattan institutions-- are being shuttered and replaced with CVS, DuaneReade, Starbucks, and other corporate stores you can find in Anytown, USA, because these giants are the only places that can afford the steep rents and property costs. In turn, this means that the "city that never sleeps" is closing earlier and earlier.
Tourism has exploded, and the millions of tourists increase in number every year -- unfortunately they're met with a city that has become Disney-esque. Fashionistas will find the Garment District replaced with condos. Rock lovers will find world famed CBGBs forcibly closed for a bank branch. Foodies that don't have deep pockets will find the famed restaurants shuttered and many of the street vendors diminishing due to police harassment and permit limitations.
Homelessness is swelling, and at the same time the NYPD are becoming increasingly militarized. In short, a city famed for its diversity and its spontaneousness and its creativity and its history and its rebelousness is becoming a nonexistent shell.
Some here may think Im anti-progress or anti-growth (Im actually not), but if the only way some of you measure progress or growth is by real estate values and how few poor people there are... then your definition of good city sounds like a hellish dystopian place to live anyhow.
Then you should take your complaint to De Blasio and the mayors of other cities, because this is the trend that city leaders want. Rising affluence and property values mean higher tax revenues and less money spent on social services and the judiciary. You can decry it as bland and corporate, but it makes life easier on the politicians.
I guess it all depends on your definition of "success". Truth is, many of these so-called success stories have developed to the point that these cities are becoming unlivable to most, and in the process are becoming as homogenous as the suburbs surrounding them once were.
Manhattan, for example, is probably the most gentrified urban area in the nation. While this has reduced crime, and brought investment into the city infrastructure, it has also in the process destroyed or priced out many of those unique institutions and immigrants that made it an attractive and desirable place to live in the first place.
The world famous theater district for example, has been shuttering performance venues left and right, because they can't afford the rapidly inflating rent.
Little Italy, once the nations largest Italian enclave and migrant center for the first time last year had zero Italian-born immigrants living in its boundaries, and saw nearly two dozen businesses priced out -- less than a dozen remain open today.
Soho, once the nations art mecca, has become one of the city's most exclusive and expensive neighborhoods.
Chinatown has been facing a similar fate, with the Chinese population rapidly diminishing for the first time the past few years.
Greenwich Village, once a center for music and counterculture and the oldest urban LGBT enclave in the US has also been dying out over the last few decades. Nearly all of the LGBT bars along Christopher Street, where the gay rights movement started, have been forced to close. The bohemian residents have been disappearing as they die off and their rent controlled dwellings are replaced by vacation condos for the super rich.
Harlem, long the nations largest African American enclave and easily the most influential, is rapidly disappearing.
In the wake of all this, thousands of the bodegos and neighborhood shops across the city --quintessential Manhattan institutions-- are being shuttered and replaced with CVS, DuaneReade, Starbucks, and other corporate stores you can find in Anytown, USA, because these giants are the only places that can afford the steep rents and property costs. In turn, this means that the "city that never sleeps" is closing earlier and earlier.
Tourism has exploded, and the millions of tourists increase in number every year -- unfortunately they're met with a city that has become Disney-esque. Fashionistas will find the Garment District replaced with condos. Rock lovers will find world famed CBGBs forcibly closed for a bank branch. Foodies that don't have deep pockets will find the famed restaurants shuttered and many of the street vendors diminishing due to police harassment and permit limitations.
Homelessness is swelling, and at the same time the NYPD are becoming increasingly militarized. In short, a city famed for its diversity and its spontaneousness and its creativity and its history and its rebelousness is becoming a nonexistent shell.
Some here may think Im anti-progress or anti-growth (Im actually not), but if the only way some of you measure progress or growth is by real estate values and how few poor people there are... then your definition of good city sounds like a hellish dystopian place to live anyhow.
What you're saying is all true, but in many ways it's true due to a lack of choice.
Americans have been spoon-fed the suburban dream for so many decades now that the few urban centers that have survived in this country are now priced extremely high due to scarcity. Perhaps much of that would have occurred in the northeast anyway, especially in Manhattan purely due to geography, but as many cities especially in the Midwest gutted themselves instead of being allowing to mature organically from their cores outward, the few livable urban neighborhoods left end up being very expensive. Per square foot places like the Old Northside, Mass Ave, even Meridian Kessler & Broad Ripple are significantly more expensive than the rest of the city and even most Carmel or Zionsville.
For thousands of years the wealthy lived in cities while the poor lived out on the plantations. It's only been since WW2 that this country decided to try to flip that around with massive social engineering.
What you're saying is all true, but in many ways it's true due to a lack of choice.
Americans have been spoon-fed the suburban dream for so many decades now that the few urban centers that have survived in this country are now priced extremely high due to scarcity. Perhaps much of that would have occurred in the northeast anyway, especially in Manhattan purely due to geography, but as many cities especially in the Midwest gutted themselves instead of being allowing to mature organically from their cores outward, the few livable urban neighborhoods left end up being very expensive. Per square foot places like the Old Northside, Mass Ave, even Meridian Kessler & Broad Ripple are significantly more expensive than the rest of the city and even most Carmel or Zionsville.
For thousands of years the wealthy lived in cities while the poor lived out on the plantations. It's only been since WW2 that this country decided to try to flip that around with massive social engineering.
Places like the Old Northside, Meridian-Kessler, and Broad Ripple have had historically more affluence than many other areas of the city proper. Were the nice homes in Meridian-Kessler just built yesterday? No - they show a level of affluence for many years.
I spent 10 years in and around Chicago. When I moved here 4 years ago my wife and I settled on Carmel as the best choice for our sight-unseen move to the Indy area. This was based off information I gathered from this forum and some other general conversations with folks. Carmel is a brilliant suburb for a young growing family. It beat the hell out of the upscale suburbs we moved around in near Chicago. We moved this past year to Whitestown, but have Zionsville schools and address with Whitestown prices, sweet deal. Part of the reason we settled on where we did was because we felt Carmel locked us in to Carmel. We had very little reason to leave, and there was this big city nearby that took way too long to get to, and although there was good stuff, it was hard to justify packing up the kids for a 45 minute drive when Carmel offered enough. We also couldn't cost justify the extra expense for an address. If you want a suburb you never have to leave (except for the Fashion Mall I suppose), then Carmel is as fine a choice as any.
For the record, almost everyone we met in Carmel was great, super nice, and not at all stuck up or pretentious. I think if you look for those things you'll find them in anyone. We did see a lot of "keeping up with the joneses" mentality, but I more felt sorry for those people than anything. The bottom line is Indy is a great City, and Carmel is a great suburb.
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