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Indy is a pretty good place for those with advanced tech degrees. The more programming one can do, the better the job from what I've seen first hand with friends and relatives. I have one relative who worked for a local company and I'm guessing was in the $60K range. He now does contract work for a tech firm and his office is out of Ohio but I'm not sure if that is the HQ. I'm guessing he is still in the $60K-$80K range. Two other relatives started off in the mid to upper $30Ks and got jobs before they finished their degree. That was back in the early 2000s. One went on to get another job which I'm guessing paid $60Kish and got an MBA. I think he now works for another company and can only assume he is making $80K+. The other finished their degree and bounced around and is now in an upper level mgnt. position likely making around $100K. All of them know all sorts of programming languages, but at least two of the three started taking on management responsibilities before they got the higher paying positions they work at now.
I really screwed up, picking a very iffy career. I only make $50K but with OT I could bring home up to $70K, but that would mean 51 hour work weeks if you factor in four weeks of time off. Not horrible, but usually the OT isn't as simple as staying over an hour here and there, it is usually working days off or working really long 16+ hour days. I wish I would have done the tech route my friends and relatives did. None of them have ever found trouble getting a job.
$50K is plenty of money in central Indiana for a single person. It mostly comes down to choices. Where one wants to live, if they have roommates, renting a home vs apartment, vehicle wants, going out drinking, partying, movies, pro-sports, concerts, etc.. My wife and I lived for around five years only making a combined $70Kish/year (before I got a nice raise and she got a transfer to a better paying position a few years after that). We are more frugal than most when it comes to doing stuff locally, but we've had some really nice vacations, drive less expensive autos, keep our vehicles for years, eat out only twice a week for the most part, etc.. We are pretty much top at our pay scales for our careers now. My job is fairly stable, her job is one of those that could go anytime. As such, with no kids, we focus on paying down our new house we just purchased because we need to save paying all that interest over 30 years.
Indy is a pretty good place for those with advanced tech degrees. The more programming one can do, the better the job from what I've seen first hand with friends and relatives. I have one relative who worked for a local company and I'm guessing was in the $60K range. He now does contract work for a tech firm and his office is out of Ohio but I'm not sure if that is the HQ. I'm guessing he is still in the $60K-$80K range. Two other relatives started off in the mid to upper $30Ks and got jobs before they finished their degree. That was back in the early 2000s. One went on to get another job which I'm guessing paid $60Kish and got an MBA. I think he now works for another company and can only assume he is making $80K+. The other finished their degree and bounced around and is now in an upper level mgnt. position likely making around $100K. All of them know all sorts of programming languages, but at least two of the three started taking on management responsibilities before they got the higher paying positions they work at now.
I really screwed up, picking a very iffy career. I only make $50K but with OT I could bring home up to $70K, but that would mean 51 hour work weeks if you factor in four weeks of time off. Not horrible, but usually the OT isn't as simple as staying over an hour here and there, it is usually working days off or working really long 16+ hour days. I wish I would have done the tech route my friends and relatives did. None of them have ever found trouble getting a job.
$50K is plenty of money in central Indiana for a single person. It mostly comes down to choices. Where one wants to live, if they have roommates, renting a home vs apartment, vehicle wants, going out drinking, partying, movies, pro-sports, concerts, etc.. My wife and I lived for around five years only making a combined $70Kish/year (before I got a nice raise and she got a transfer to a better paying position a few years after that). We are more frugal than most when it comes to doing stuff locally, but we've had some really nice vacations, drive less expensive autos, keep our vehicles for years, eat out only twice a week for the most part, etc.. We are pretty much top at our pay scales for our careers now. My job is fairly stable, her job is one of those that could go anytime. As such, with no kids, we focus on paying down our new house we just purchased because we need to save paying all that interest over 30 years.
Tech unemployment here in Indianapolis is about zero right now. That's the main reason I'm here - I make decent money, but if something did happen to my current job, I think I could find something else rather quickly. I can't say that about a lot of other places. One of the guys from my last employer was canned and it didn't seem to hurt him. He's got a better paying job with a better organization.
$50k isn't peanuts, but like I said, you aren't going to be "living large" on that. At $60k with all taxes, insurance, and 6%-8% 401k contribution, I net slightly over $3,000/month. My rent is $850 with the water bill.
Am I hard up? No, but I'm doing just a little better than getting by.
It is hard to get ahead on much less than 100k unless you are extremely frugal and even then it can take decades.
Even if you make 100k per year as a single person it is hard to save 20k per year after taxes and expenses. Including investment returns you might be able to turn that into 1mm after 20 years.
Most people out of school have students loans and even if they drive old cars and eat out occasionally and travel infrequently it is hard for them to save even 20k per year.
Very few single people making 100k per year are able to max out their Roth for 5500 and their 401k for 18k, much less savings on top of that.
It is hard to get ahead on much less than 100k unless you are extremely frugal and even then it can take decades.
Even if you make 100k per year as a single person it is hard to save 20k per year after taxes and expenses. Including investment returns you might be able to turn that into 1mm after 20 years.
Most people out of school have students loans and even if they drive old cars and eat out occasionally and travel infrequently it is hard for them to save even 20k per year.
Very few single people making 100k per year are able to max out their Roth for 5500 and their 401k for 18k, much less savings on top of that.
Someone who can't live on $100K in central Indiana can't cook themselves a meal, eats out every single time, drives fancy cars, and demands to live downtown paying at least $1,000+/month in rent. My wife and I were at $70K combined for five years. We had enough savings before we moved into together a year before getting married that we owed $100K on a $125K home. We paid off the home within seven years. We take our lunch to work, we drove nicer used cars or cheaper newer cars, we didn't take $10K/year vacations, etc.. If a single person can't get rich on $100K/year in this part of the country, they have a spending problem. Once we got the house paid off we both got bumps in pay making about $100K/year combined. We had minimal bills before buying the new home. We were able to bank roughly $30K-$40K a year as a DINK couple. If someone can't save a ton of money live on $100K/year by themselves, they are doing something wrong.
As a DINK couple you made $70K per year and you claim you were able to save $30-40K per year. The math does not work.
$100K mortgage for 30 years is around $500 per month.
+$200/mth for utilities
+$100/cable and internet
+$200/mth property tax
+100/mth property insurance
Car Expenses - even driving older average cars with no payment you have insurance, which for 2 would be $100/mth.
Now, I know you bring your lunch everyday but you still have to buy food. For a couple that is another $500/mth for food, assuming you never eat out.
Assuming you take no vacations, you still have to drive, which for 2 is going to cost you $300/mth. And, you have maintenance for those older cars of say $200/mth.
Assuming you eat out 1-2 times per week that is another $500/mth.
I also assume you have to buy stuff around the house, which is another $200/mth
Clothes and shoes should run at least $300/mth.
Now, we have total expenses of $3,200/mth, which is before taxes.
At $70K in income you get much of the taxes you pay as refund but you are still paying some in taxes.
When I was talking about savings, I was talking outside of retirement plans, which you would not have enough income at $70K to max out yearly limit of $47k for couple. (401k and ROTH max).
When I made $100K per year I was lucky to bank $30-40K per year as a single person.
In the IT security discipline you could command that with minimal experience and certs. I just turned down a headhunter last week who offered me $120k to move to another company based on the experience I have with particular systems (SIEMs). If I was in the DC area that price would be closer to $150k, mainly due to demand.
The money being paid is stupid, even to entry level people. That being said, the salaries are definitely lower in the south. The spouse works in IT as well, and their job commands less in the south than in the midwest as well.
The companies here play the "sun and fun" aspect up big time, but I can assure you the cost of living is on par or higher than the midwest depending on the area.
RM
Would you be so kind to provide a roadmap to get into this arena? Which certs should I obtain? I'm working on sec+ now, but I'm kind of lost after that. Thanks!
Security+ is a good start, but it's not valued anywhere near as much as CISSP. CISSP is considered the foundational certification for the industry by most employers. It's a ""10,000 foot view" of the discipline, basically covering everything there is but in little detail. To achieve the certification you have to have some experience, so it's best to do your Security+ and try to find something entry level so you can get some experience in order to achieve the CISSP. They do allow substitution for some experience, so review the requirements and you'll have an idea what to do to get it the quickest way possible.
From there you'll have to make some decisions as to what interests you most. There are a lot of areas of specialization, so it's best to pick one and go with that. A good place to get an idea of where to go is the SANS web site https://www.sans.org. SANS is the leading organization in the industry for training and resources. They have some good information on career paths using their training, of course. It's not cheap, but it's very good and can be taken any number of ways. The GIAC certifications are highly regarded in the industry and a good indication of your abilities. GIAC certifications can open a lot of doors as far as employment.
It's not an easy industry to get into, but once you've got some experience under your belt the sky is pretty much the limit, as the demand for people is massive and isn't going to decrease for a long time.
^^ Thank you SOOO much MortonR! I will look into all all the info you've provided. I know the old saying is do what you love, and the money will come. I know I will find an area of security that'll interest me.
As a DINK couple you made $70K per year and you claim you were able to save $30-40K per year. The math does not work.
$100K mortgage for 30 years is around $500 per month.
+$200/mth for utilities I guess this isn't unreasonable, but one would think with a smallish house, you could keep this pretty low
+$100/cable and internet Skip the cable, and you can easily get internet for more like $30/month
+$200/mth property tax Shouldn't it be more like $100/month for a $100k home?
+100/mth property insurance
Car Expenses - even driving older average cars with no payment you have insurance, which for 2 would be $100/mth. You can find cheaper--I have Geico and pay closer to $60/month.
Now, I know you bring your lunch everyday but you still have to buy food. For a couple that is another $500/mth for food, assuming you never eat out. Shop at Aldi or shop sale items and this can go down by a lot...maybe down to $200/month.
Assuming you take no vacations, you still have to drive, which for 2 is going to cost you $300/mth. And, you have maintenance for those older cars of say $200/mth. Where in the world are you getting these numbers? If you don't drive too far and have a fuel-efficient vehicle, you can spend much less than that! And maintenance for what that could possibly cost that much!?
Assuming you eat out 1-2 times per week that is another $500/mth. What!? Even if they went to pricey places that were $25 per person twice per week every month, that's still $400. And who is living that kind of lifestyle?
I also assume you have to buy stuff around the house, which is another $200/mth Stuff around the house such as...what?
Clothes and shoes should run at least $300/mth. What the crap. Who in the world spends that much money on clothes per month!? Maybe someone who buys all clothes brand new and has a few kids who are constantly growing out of things, but surely two adults don't need that kind of a clothing budget!
Now, we have total expenses of $3,200/mth, which is before taxes.
At $70K in income you get much of the taxes you pay as refund but you are still paying some in taxes.
When I was talking about savings, I was talking outside of retirement plans, which you would not have enough income at $70K to max out yearly limit of $47k for couple. (401k and ROTH max).
When I made $100K per year I was lucky to bank $30-40K per year as a single person.
If you really think you "need" $100k to live as a single person, especially in central Indiana, you're off your rocker.
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Hard to get ahead on 60k per year
