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My wife and are thinking of relocating to the Indianapolis area. We actually looked at new construction and open houses a few weekends ago in the northern burbs, with
Fishers, Noblesville and Westfield rounding out our list.* I am a born-and-raised Chicagoan with 2 kids. Schools are a huge issue for us. In Chicago, for your child to get a competetive education, you have to afford private schooling, live in one of the costlier neighborhoods, or be the*offspring of some local politician.**
In the Indianapolis area we are attracted to the cheaper cost of living, especially property taxes and housing. It's a great feeling to look at new construction starting in the low 300's.* I didn't however get any great feeling for any of the northern Indy burbs.* In Fishers, I found this odd, they are tearing up train tracks that run through their Downtown area. As their suburbs grow, are they not contemplating some sort of public transportation to link themselves with Downtown Indy?* Bottom line for me is, that if I'm going to leave the big city, I'd like to at least trade it for a nice cute main street town. You know, one with a breakfast restaurant where all the old men gather and tell war stories. A couple antique stores and a coffee shop to top things off. A few dinner restaurants would be nice too, somewhere my wife and I can have a date night.* I just hate to trade the city for some scattered suburban sprawl slapped down on previously occupied farmland, all of it intersecting at some nowhere US or state route. We looked at a model home at a new construction site and after exiting it that late afternoon and looking around at the unfinished lots and acreage, I couldn't helped but be reminded of the opening chapter of Willa Cather's novel My Antonia. "Under that earth and that sky I felt erased, blotted out."* I know, that's probably not fair, so for good measure we're gonna go back in the spring and check out Avon, Zionsville and Brownsburg.**
As you'll find, public transit is not big in Indiana. Indianapolis just got the RedLine up and running a few months ago and that's really nice, but essentially only City Bus on crack. There have been talks of turning that former railroad into light rail, but it never made it beyond discussions due to everyone being against the costs associated with it up front. Instead the Railroad track you are speaking of I believe is being turned into a running/biking path. So to sum up if you move to Indy area, DO NOT expect any kind of mass/public transit anytime soon.
Having said that if you are looking again in the spring, Zionsville will probably fit your bill of the quaint main street. One of the coolest downtowns you'll find in the suburbs. Definitely has what you are speaking of plus wine bars and plenty of restaurants, antique and coffee shops. Closer to the interstate they have a plethora of shops and stores going in for whatever needs you have. Of the suburbs though your money towards a home will not go as far in Zionsville. Even the older stock homes run over $300,000 typically. There are newer neighborhoods being built but the lowest end with no upgrades is right around $300,000. I'm sure you can find something, but it will be harder just an FYI. On a side note getting to downtown Indy if you need or back up to Chicago to visit family will be easy with 65 right there on the edge of Zionsville. You might also look at Whitestown. It is Zionsville schools and essentially the two communities are morphing together, but it is cheaper there.
Avoid Avon. You will find restaurants and things for a date night there, BUT it is the suburban sprawl nightmare you speak of. Everything is located off of Rockville Rd in one continuous strip mall. It is getting easier with some of the upgrades to roads (Ronald Reagan Pkwy) get in and out of these stores, but rush hour commutes anywhere are tough as you add at least 15 min to your commute.
Brownsburg or Plainfield are the other 2 you should look at on Westside instead. They will definitely have more of the quaint feel when you get into their downtown areas. Based on what you like Plainfield may be more of the route to go. It has an outdoor mall (The Shops at Perry Crossing) that provide big box stores and some higher end restaurants. It is better than Avon for at least getting around and it is slower paced like Zionsville and most of your western suburbs once you get off the main roads and into neighborhoods. Plainfield will probably have the least amount of newer construction as they are almost completely built out. They do have easy access to 70 for getting downtown easily. Airport is also nearby. Currently, though others are catching up, I think Plainfield has the best running trail and park system all located along the White River.
Brownsburg is looking at adding alot of commercial (eventually) along 74 and Ronald Reagan Parkway and will extend up to 65 for good access to Chicago. But right now we lack many of the big box stores that the other communities mentioned do have. We have restaurants and you can do a date night, but it will offer less in comparison to most of the other communities you mentioned. We typically drive into Downtown Indy, Zionsville, Avon or Plainfield if we really want something different and more unique for our date night. However there are definitely places available and where you'll find the oldsters chatting things up. This means Bburg will typically feel the slowest of all the communities as the interstate doesn't take you west to as big of a metro area as the other interstates and it dead ends before downtown Indy. That being said commute to downtown Indy (depending on where you are going) is about the same commute time wise as Zionsville or Plainfield. My wife works downtown and we looked at Pfield and Zville as well. Her travel would have been the following: Pfield (24 min and 15 miles), Bburg (29 min and 16.8 miles), Zville (31 min, 17.4 miles). Based on what you are looking for I don't think Brownsburg would currently fit your bill. We love it here, but we wanted shorter commute, close to family, and have the slower pace feel of life. We get that's not for everyone and that's fine. I also selfishly wanted Brownsburg for its proximity to Eagle Creek Park which I run at all the time.
You didn't mention Carmel, but that is a suburb that has its own dowtown area that has many things you asked about. It will probably have sort of the Chicago feel as it is a city that could stand on its own but reminds me of the Chicago suburbs with what it offers and how it is built out. Again you may not find much new development unless you look on the far westside of Carmel, but just another option to look into if you haven't already.
Honestly public education in Indiana you can't go wrong with. Most of the communities you looked at are the ones "rated" highest in the state of Indiana for achievement. As I say every time though, the education your kids get will be determined by how involved you are. I have seen kids at private schools do terrible due to low parent engagement and seen kids excel at schools most people deem "low" because parents were involved. But honestly any community you have listed your children would get a good education and have students around them who have similar goals in life.
Noblesville and Zionsville have two of the best old school type of downtowns in the Indy suburbs. Zionsville has a long cobblestone street lined with some restaurants and shops, including art galleries and antique stores. Noblesville has a town square surrounding the court house with shops, restaurants, a cool ice cream parlor and some antique stores as well. As mentioned, Zionsville is going to be much more expensive than Noblesville or most other suburbs. Noblesville also puts you further out from Indy so it could be a longer commute depending on where you will be working.
Avoid Avon. You will find restaurants and things for a date night there, BUT it is the suburban sprawl nightmare you speak of. Everything is located off of Rockville Rd in one continuous strip mall. It is getting easier with some of the upgrades to roads (Ronald Reagan Pkwy) get in and out of these stores, but rush hour commutes anywhere are tough as you add at least 15 min to your commute.
This is a bit misleading.
While I agree with pretty much everything else in the response, I lived in Avon and was able to avoid the "suburban sprawl nightmare" without a lot of effort. People tend to focus on Rockville Road (U.S. 36) as being Avon, which it is, but if you go north of Rockville Road along 10th or 21st streets you'll find some very nice areas that have excellent accessibility to downtown and the interstate without ever having to go onto or around Rockville Road.
That being said, living where I did off 21st Street gave me easy accessibility to all of the retail establishments on Rockville Road without having to deal with the traffic for the most part. That and there is a wide range of housing options in this area, too. My house was in the $500k range, but there were others far less expensive and a few that cost more. Plenty of new construction and existing homes as well.
I always considered the general area where I lived Avon's "hidden gem", as it was a great neighborhood with easy access to retail, dining, downtown and the interstate. I could get to the airport in maybe 15-20 minutes, downtown in under 30, Brownsburg or I-74 in 10 minutes, and I-465 in maybe 10 minutes, if that. Add to this that going west I could be in a pretty rural area within minutes.
To summarize, Avon is not Rockville Road. Rockville Road is a major arterial going through Avon, but certainly not the only way to get in or out of it. And there are large and very nice portions of Avon that are not on or near Rockville Road.
While I agree with pretty much everything else in the response, I lived in Avon and was able to avoid the "suburban sprawl nightmare" without a lot of effort. People tend to focus on Rockville Road (U.S. 36) as being Avon, which it is, but if you go north of Rockville Road along 10th or 21st streets you'll find some very nice areas that have excellent accessibility to downtown and the interstate without ever having to go onto or around Rockville Road.
That being said, living where I did off 21st Street gave me easy accessibility to all of the retail establishments on Rockville Road without having to deal with the traffic for the most part. That and there is a wide range of housing options in this area, too. My house was in the $500k range, but there were others far less expensive and a few that cost more. Plenty of new construction and existing homes as well.
I always considered the general area where I lived Avon's "hidden gem", as it was a great neighborhood with easy access to retail, dining, downtown and the interstate. I could get to the airport in maybe 15-20 minutes, downtown in under 30, Brownsburg or I-74 in 10 minutes, and I-465 in maybe 10 minutes, if that. Add to this that going west I could be in a pretty rural area within minutes.
To summarize, Avon is not Rockville Road. Rockville Road is a major arterial going through Avon, but certainly not the only way to get in or out of it. And there are large and very nice portions of Avon that are not on or near Rockville Road.
RM
OP being from Chicago, this may all be moot and you are right MortonR that then they could probably consider Avon. They are probably used to way worse commutes than what Avon to Dowtown would be (assuming that is where they work). If they work from home or even closer by I guess you could disregard my comments. I'm also not disagreeing that there aren't nice homes. That area near and around Kingsway is as you said extremely nice, has a rural, slower feel. We looked at a home in Oak Bend off 10th and Green Street about a mile west of Kingsway and that neighborhood was really nice. Once you get away from Rockville there are some great neighborhoods; very, very nice homes. And as you put it there are some hidden gem areas. I never said there weren't.
However, I said that outside of the neighborhood you live in there isn't as much of a "town" or "community" feel especially with a "quaint downtown" like the OP said they were looking for "...Bottom line for me is, that if I'm going to leave the big city, I'd like to at least trade it for a nice cute main street town. You know, one with a breakfast restaurant where all the old men gather and tell war stories. A couple antique stores and a coffee shop to top things off. A few dinner restaurants would be nice too, somewhere my wife and I can have a date night..."
There are obviously a multitude of date night options in Avon, but there isn't a place to just easily meet up without going to Rockville Rd. Even the Farmer's Market is off of Rockville Rd in a healthcare parking lot. I'm not saying any community is perfect or that a road is what dictates what does or does not make a community, but I do think that if you are doing anything outside of your neighborhood you will typically be centered in and around Rockville if you are doing it in Avon. What other intersection besides Avon Ave and 10th has any kind of commercial as a place to meet up? Once you make friends great, you can hang out at their houses and avoid Rockville, but to meet up at BWs (as an example) with someone you'll have to use Rockville at some point.
Yes, Rockville Rd is not the only way to get in and out. I typically drive down roads that parallel it and cut over it when I have to, but any rush hour people are using all those other roads, not just Rockville. I can't tell you how many times before we moved to our current house, when we were in an apartment, that I had to go down 21st to get home. When I was in high school over 15 years ago to go down 21st during rush hour wasn't as quick as you are making it out to be. Those stoplights at Country Club and Raceway back traffic up drastically. 10th street goes down from 2 lanes to 1 right before Country Club Rd and that causes major slow down. Then 1 lane to the stoplight at Raceway. Ronald Reagan has helped immensely in alleviating some of that, but it still adds quite a bit of time to that commute more than Google Maps will show. Yes non rush hour times it's a breeze to get around using back roads and then cutting up to Rockville, but you still don't have a downtown, main street Avon feel anywhere. Again coming from Chicago maybe this doesn't matter, just the experiences I know of most people having that work east of Avon, whether downtown or not.
Yes, you could avoid Rockville most of the time and life will be pretty good, but I still don't think you'll get that community feel. My buddy worked for the Town of Avon for awhile before taking a job with the City of Indianapolis. He always said the biggest complaint they got on the feedback surveys they send out about future development and what the community wanted was a lack of a feeling of community. If your kids are involved in school things or if you are in a church I'm sure that will help, I just have not heard of the "community" feel as much as in other towns, cities, etc. The one event that feels the most "community-esque" is Ribfest in the summer (one of the best Westside festivals, IMO), but you get as many people from Indianapolis, Brownsburg, Danville or other communities as Avon there.
So, MortonR you bring up a good point, but based on what the poster was looking for I don't think Avon would fit the bill.
In the Indianapolis area we are attracted to the cheaper cost of living, especially property taxes and housing. It's a great feeling to look at new construction starting in the low 300's.* I didn't however get any great feeling for any of the northern Indy burbs.* In Fishers, I found this odd, they are tearing up train tracks that run through their Downtown area. As their suburbs grow, are they not contemplating some sort of public transportation to link themselves with Downtown Indy?*
It all comes down to money. There is a reason why that new construction is low, and why property taxes are low. Mass transit costs money. There are no natural borders in this area, and growth spread out from downtown in all directions. This means we just don't have the density for serious mass transit. The city (Indy) does have something called "the red line" that they just started. It is bus rapid transit and its success is to-be-determined. If it is mostly positive, they plan on adding additional lines and if the suburban counties throw into the funding, they may extend certain lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomrf
Bottom line for me is, that if I'm going to leave the big city, I'd like to at least trade it for a nice cute main street town. You know, one with a breakfast restaurant where all the old men gather and tell war stories. A couple antique stores and a coffee shop to top things off. A few dinner restaurants would be nice too, somewhere my wife and I can have a date night.* I just hate to trade the city for some scattered suburban sprawl slapped down on previously occupied farmland, all of it intersecting at some nowhere US or state route.
First off, there are a few places in the metro area that fit your bill. The thing is, many of these areas have grown in a suburban way to some extent. Some of the larger suburban cities/towns might have one, maybe two, "nicer" restaurant though. It likely isn't going to be a five star place. Almost all of them have places where folks can gather, even the smaller places like New Palestine, McCordsville, and Fortville. In our metro area, the choice is basically urban, suburban/rural, or rural/suburban. The smaller rural/suburban cities and towns, to me, would be New Palestine, McCordsville, and Fortville. Some of the larger cities with a more "main street" feel might be Shelbyville, Greenwood, Franklin, Danville, Mooresville, Plainfield, Avon, Brownsburg, Pendleton, and Lebanon.
Zionsville, Carmel, Westfield, Noblesville, and Fishers are all upper class areas, with Carmel, Zionsville, and Fishers leading the pack. They will also have places where folks meet, and they have a variety of places to eat and shop. Like every other upper income suburban area of most cities our size, it all feels manufactured. Noblesville is more of a mix like the other places I mentioned in the previous paragraph. They are the county seat and have a nice downtown square where the courthouse and county offices are located. Everyone else is right, Zionsville does have a nice village area.
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