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If Indy was the first city of a little over 1M people to try this, I might actually be behind it. Indy isn't, we are late to the billion dollar spending spree and a lot of folks in this city want a cut of that pie to put in their bank, brokerage, and retirement accounts. The see politicians and the politically connected are getting rich of these wasteful rail building projects, so it isn't any surprise they want that here. These rail lines are nothing but money eaters. The rail is the problem I have with this plan, but they know the rich folks in Fishers and Greenwood don't want no fancy bus, no they want a fancy rail line system.
Transportation is a huge money maker for the insiders. From road building to light or heavy rail. The problem is that people are tapped out. I don't think it should be a per county vote, I think it's time to start recording votes on an individual level. If someone wants to pay for it, they go to their employer and tell them to start withholding taxes. If a person doesn't want to pay for it, they opt out of the paying the tax. Why can't we start doing things this way?
It is completely self-centered around three counties: Marion, Hamilton, and Franklin. It's pretty obvious what they did. They knew that in order to secure as much support as possible, they needed to bribe as many people as possible. An extra lane, a toll lane at that, from Post Rd. in Indy to the first Hancock Co. I-70 exit would get you about zero votes from Hancock County residents. This pretty much would be the case for most of the surrounding counties. So now they up the bribing. They extend the light or heavy rail to Noblesville and Franklin, hoping to entice thousands more to vote yes (because they won't be paying anywhere near their fair share, but they will stand to benefit the most...for decades to come). Then they come up with this laughable network of walking or bike paths, which is nothing more than "We will build sidewalks in the suburbs." That's all those paths are. Oh, and now they run a bus to the burbs to take people downtown, but you still have to pay for the bus ride.
The entire thing is corrupt from the start.
Is this supposed to be a joke? More and more, there is less "private" anything when it comes to "private enterprises." Private enterprises, to me at least, are PRIVATE. It means they don't take tax money, they pay their fair share in taxes, and they don't derive a huge % of their revenue from tax dollars (ie: Gov. business). Downtown Indy is anything but "private enterprise." It is mostly quasi-government partnerships with so call private businesses:
-NCAA: Given land in a state park. They pay zero property taxes, yet can afford to pay their leaders six-figure wages.
-Indiana Univ: Tuition has went from $90/credit hour to $250ish/credit hour at IUPUI. They claim to be private, and say they should be allowed to do what they want, then they run to the general assembly begging for more tax dollars. They sit on a billion dollars, build tax exempt building after tax exempt building, buy up more and more land, taking it off the tax rolls.
-Simon HQ: They threaten to move to Hamilton County, so the city gives them free land and an underground parking garage. There might have even been some tax incentives.
-Lucas Oil Stadium, Conseco Fieldhouse, Victory Field: Everyone who eats out pays, but at least this is a tax one can utilize their Ir$ay Deductions and avoid if they get no benefit from it. All the while, we have players who make a min. of $300K/year saying their wages, backed in part by taxpayer funded stadiums for owners, isn't enough. The biggest welfare queens in Indy are pro-sports players.
-New Marriott hotel: Again, another massive "private" corporation that gets a pass on paying their fair share for their property. Don't worry, there is always more taxes they can levy on the rest of us to bailout large corporations. A private business shouldn't pay their fair share for police, fire, and EMS services.
The definition of a city is relative to each individual. You could have spread out all those towers downtown to the surrounding counties and rush hour traffic wouldn't be an issue in Marion County and the Northside/Hamilton County. However, human beings seem to flock to an area where there are other humans gathering in large numbers...for many reasons. Of course when costly problems arise, they scream that they shouldn't have to burden the full costs only on their shoulders alone, that others, who may be 40 miles away, should be forced to chip in.
1. For large businesses with a lot of positions to fill (e.g. Lilly, Wellpoint, One America, Simon, etc.) it makes perfect sense for them to base themselves downtown so they have access to labor in Greenwood or Carmel. Folks in Greenwood might be less inclined to want to commute to Carmel. And before you go there -- no, that doesn't mean they should move to Carmel to shorten the commute. With labor and employer mobility today, it doesn't make sense for folks to move every time they change jobs, and the jobs aren't always available two blocks down the street.
2. IUPUI -- I don't know where you got the idea that they think of themselves as private. The entire IU system, as well as Purdue and Ball State, are state-supported. That's pretty well-known.
3. Pro athletes pay a lot of federal, state and local taxes. In fact, Indiana and Marion County collect income taxes on athletes from visiting teams who play games here, as do other jurisdictions on Colts and Pacers players. Overpaid, sure, but they're hardly welfare queens.
4. Between pro athletes and union workers, you have an unhealthy obession with and jealousy of other people's earnings.
5. Indy Connect | A Central Indiana Public Transportation Initiative (http://www.indyconnect.org/plan.htm - broken link) If you have information to the contrary, by all means share. However, I believe the toll lane idea is dead.
6. I couldn't care less if Hancock County votes to opt out of this plan. Right now the plan seems to be to work around those counties who vote down the plan. So, enjoy living in the sticks, whether that be in Hancock County or in Big Sky country. We'll do just fine without you.
2. IUPUI -- I don't know where you got the idea that they think of themselves as private. The entire IU system, as well as Purdue and Ball State, are state-supported. That's pretty well-known.
These universities claim all the time they are publicly funded private universities who should be treated and viewed differently than say the health department. They want to wrap their arms around the fact they are "public" when claiming they are there for the public good and need more taxpayer money. They want to claim they should be left alone, as a private entity, when they want to hike tuition, or bury the IUPUI report on the coach of the women's basketball team.
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Originally Posted by grmasterb
3. Pro athletes pay a lot of federal, state and local taxes. In fact, Indiana and Marion County collect income taxes on athletes from visiting teams who play games here, as do other jurisdictions on Colts and Pacers players. Overpaid, sure, but they're hardly welfare queens.
They are welfare-queens of the worse kind. Other folks on welfare usually end up living in dumps, can't afford cars, etc.. These folks get their business facility paid for by taxpayers, so in turn their boss can pay them even more money, since he has taxpayers footing what should be something he is paying for. It doesn't get more welfare than that.
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Originally Posted by grmasterb
4. Between pro athletes and union workers, you have an unhealthy obession with and jealousy of other people's earnings.
When it is my money being used to pay for them, I think it is OK to have an obsession. I guess you won't care when public colleges and universities start charging $1,000/credit hour so they can pay their athletic coaches tens of millions? When does it finally end? I didn't know that all this money just existed to pay these people these huge wages. Oh wait, it doesn't just exists, it comes out of my paycheck.
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Originally Posted by grmasterb
6. I couldn't care less if Hancock County votes to opt out of this plan. Right now the plan seems to be to work around those counties who vote down the plan. So, enjoy living in the sticks, whether that be in Hancock County or in Big Sky country. We'll do just fine without you.
I hope you are correct and they do leave us alone. They can take their their bus and their sidewalks and keep their greedy hands out of my wallet. I don't want to be taxed so folks 20 miles away from me get a fancy light rail to ride. If those folks want that, they need to pony up their own cash to pay for it. I wouldn't mind having it, but I sure as hell ain't gonna start paying for it today so I might have it 30 years from now.
I'll stick around here in the "sticks" ten miles from three Wal-mart Supercenters, a Meijers, two Home Depots, a Lowes, a Sam's Club, and a Mernards. I'll also have no issues driving 23 miles to hit up five nice shopping centers.
[quote=Ravekid;16431708]Chicago isn't Indianapolis, and if Indy ever becomes Chicago, great...I will be making close to $100K at my government job. Of course tuition will have to double, cause that is life in the "big city." Taxes will need to spike up as well, because cities are expensive. Anyone who wants my home will have to fork over $300, maybe $400K for it, when I paid just $130K. I don't want Indy to be like Chicago. All it is about is corruption of government, massive taxation, everyone living under one big debt (public and private) umbrella.
However, if building a stupid rail system means I can cash out my home for $400K, and get some smuck to actually pay that for it, then fine. I will do just what folks in California did. Sell my home, take my huge gains, take my Indiana taxpayer funded retirement, and get the hell out of dodge to avoid the ever increasing demands for more taxation.
The only people who think Chicago is "world class" are urban cheerleaders. I'm not an urban cheerleader, by go ahead and turn Indy into world class status, so long as I can find some idiot to take out a $400K ARM for my home because it is 20 mins. to downtown, I could careless. I can easily reduce my taxation living in a world class city by working side jobs and avoiding income taxes. I will also stop spending money at the mom and pop places, and when I do have to eat out, just tip the minimum.
Oh, what is so world class by having around 400 homicides a year? Ask Natasha McShane and Stancy Jurich how world class Chicago is.[/quote]
The part that's in bold? Aren't you railing against the government in general in this thread? I may be mistaken, and if I am, forgive me, but it seems like you would be in favor of getting more money, from posts I've read.
Here's the thing: Government is here for the people. Period. If we don't like what we have, we vote people out. This isn't Soviet Russia. This isn't communist China. This is America. It's a shame that both of our "viable options" in political ruling are bought and paid for by private interests, but that's reality. No one is going to vote for myself, or you, or any internet poster because we speak our minds because it's not "politically" correct.
But I digress.
Indianapolis is consistently in the top 20 of "biggest cities in America", but yet we don't have mass transportation. Is Indiana not the crossroads of America? Is Indianapolis not the city with the most interstates converging? If I'm wrong, please correct me.
We used to have (way before my time) in-road rails set up for "San Francisco-esque" style of transportation, but in the 50's(?) 60's(?) "we" decided it was better to have roads be the dominant transportation of Hoosiers. If we had a DeLorean that could travel 88mph (with a flux capacitor) we would slap our past (current?) occupants in the face and said, "NO!! Keep those in street rail lines because eventually Indianapolis is going to become one of the biggest cities in America and one of the major reasons holding us back was your lack of foresight to keep in-street rail lnes!"
The "Indy-Connect" program is woefully deficient.
I have worked as a traffic reporter in Indianapolis, and I am well aware we need mass transit. The problem is that since the 50's(?), 60's(?) we weened ourselves off of mass transportation as a viable option because, HEY!, ROADS! LET'S DRIVE!
If you're anything like me, you practically want to strangle someone who is an inconsiderate driver/ fixing their hair/ texting/ think they're better and deserve to skip the "waiting line" for an exit, and eventually cause accidents. Mass transportaion would help solve problems with a strictly road based metropolitian area. Those "drivers" would either use the mass transit or continue to drive their Escalades haphazardly through traffic with a significantly lower volume of traffic to contend with, ultimately lowering driver fatalities.
The Indy-Connect program is woefully devoid of what Indianapolis could be. What is stopping us from having an Olympic Summer games? Our lack of hotels and public transportation. During the 500 and 400 hotels are SOLD OUT within 30 miles of the Speedway, and how are those tourists (some foreign, out of state) getting to the Speedway? Our interstates.
I fully support a mass tranist system in Indianapolis, but only one that will grow and accomodate the needs of people in central Indiana.
Side note: What can kill a true mass transportation initiave in Indianapolis is the "privitazation" of parking meters in downtown, like what happened in Chicago. I paid $60 dollars for a parking garage in Chicago for 2 hours. Granted it was downtown, but I have a feeling that it would be *slightly* cheaper if the city/state was in charge of the costs. Because well... City/State has to answer to the people, while private industry has to answer to the stock holders...
The second bold point: What city is that? Des Moines?
The third bold point: What? Do you think "crazy" or "murderous" DECREASES with more people? Guaranteed if Nashville, Tennessee had as many people as Chicago (8,000,000) there would be a comparable amount of murders. Why is Gary, IN the murder capital of the world??? Is it because it has the most people in the world?
What is stopping us from having an Olympic Summer games?
Two things beyond mass transit -- security costs and an anti-American IOC. Let's face it, if Chicago can't land the games, Indy doesn't stand a chance. Besides, the games have become too expensive to host.
BTW.....Ravekid has apparently left us, so don't expect a response.
The third bold point: What? Do you think "crazy" or "murderous" DECREASES with more people? Guaranteed if Nashville, Tennessee had as many people as Chicago (8,000,000) there would be a comparable amount of murders. Why is Gary, IN the murder capital of the world??? Is it because it has the most people in the world?
I don't agree with the above. Homicide rates can definitely be traced back to more than just shear numbers. The overall economy, the way the citizens behave, etc. will have more of an impact than just the amount of people living in a certain area. If everything else stayed the say in terms of demographics, economic opportunity, etc., I doubt Boise, ID, Billings, MT, or Cheyenne, WY would match Chicago in homicides just because they go from 50K-200K to 2.8M people.
As far as mass transit in Indy, I would only vote for a tax if I get a rail line nearby. No rail, no tax. While they claim they would provide future rail spurs, I gotta see it to believe it. I do think that areas where there will be light rail stations will see economic growth, but I don't think it is right to have everyone fork over money for the economic benefit of small pockets in Hamilton, Marion, and Johnson counties. My suggestion to the group would be to have a sliding scale when it comes to the taxation. For the counties that don't get a rail at the start, they pay a much lower tax than those counties that do see light rail.
I don't agree with the above. Homicide rates can definitely be traced back to more than just shear numbers. The overall economy, the way the citizens behave, etc. will have more of an impact than just the amount of people living in a certain area. If everything else stayed the say in terms of demographics, economic opportunity, etc., I doubt Boise, ID, Billings, MT, or Cheyenne, WY would match Chicago in homicides just because they go from 50K-200K to 2.8M people.
As far as mass transit in Indy, I would only vote for a tax if I get a rail line nearby. No rail, no tax. While they claim they would provide future rail spurs, I gotta see it to believe it. I do think that areas where there will be light rail stations will see economic growth, but I don't think it is right to have everyone fork over money for the economic benefit of small pockets in Hamilton, Marion, and Johnson counties. My suggestion to the group would be to have a sliding scale when it comes to the taxation. For the counties that don't get a rail at the start, they pay a much lower tax than those counties that do see light rail.
As far as mass transit in Indy, I would only vote for a tax if I get a rail line nearby. No rail, no tax. While they claim they would provide future rail spurs, I gotta see it to believe it. I do think that areas where there will be light rail stations will see economic growth, but I don't think it is right to have everyone fork over money for the economic benefit of small pockets in Hamilton, Marion, and Johnson counties. My suggestion to the group would be to have a sliding scale when it comes to the taxation. For the counties that don't get a rail at the start, they pay a much lower tax than those counties that do see light rail.
Honestly, thats not such a terrible idea. Especially considering that only Boone, Marion, and Hamilton counties are the only counties scheduled to get light rail in the next 25 years.
Honestly, thats not such a terrible idea. Especially considering that only Boone, Marion, and Hamilton counties are the only counties scheduled to get light rail in the next 25 years.
I think you mean Johnson instead of Boone.
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