Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-06-2012, 12:17 AM
 
3,853 posts, read 12,864,420 times
Reputation: 2529

Advertisements

Alright, so anyone think this is an opportunity to short these stocks?

In my area most of the unionized grocery stores are having a hell of a time competing against wal-mart/target and big box discounters. Many are closing. Meanwhile new target and wal-marts are opening. We can clearly see the trend here: unionized retail is on the out and non-unionized retail is on the up.

This leads me to believe that there is a good opportunity to short the remaining unionized stores.

Supervalue (SVU) owns Albertson's stores but this stock has already been decimated. -95% loss since 2007.

Kroger (KR) is another major unionized shop that is faring better, for now. Only down -15% from 2007. Could potentially fall further.

the other is safeway (swy). Only down -50% or so from 2007.

The basic thing to take from this is that big-box & non-union is on the up and up. Target and Wal-mart and buys IMO. Meanwhile the unionized retailers are shorting opportunities. I think KR is the best one to short.

Anyone looking into this industry?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
 
1,834 posts, read 2,694,321 times
Reputation: 2675
It is only going to get worse=no water=food prices up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 10:33 PM
 
1,874 posts, read 2,232,991 times
Reputation: 3037
I would do a pair trade to hedge your risk. Perhaps go long Wholefoods International or Hain Celestial.

Full disclosure: I'm long HAIN and up 220%.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,690,750 times
Reputation: 9980
I have never been in a WALMART and will never shop there. Boycott WALMART
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2012, 12:28 AM
 
3,853 posts, read 12,864,420 times
Reputation: 2529
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong7 View Post
I would do a pair trade to hedge your risk. Perhaps go long Wholefoods International or Hain Celestial.

Full disclosure: I'm long HAIN and up 220%.
Yeah that's a possibility. IMO, those stores are just specialty types. They cater to a specific niche of customer. Those customers will generally always want to go to some sort of natural food/health type of stores. They won't go to a walmart, target, ralphs etc. With that being said, I'd say the vast majority of people are focused on general retailing and a major factor in that is price. At this point, it is pretty simple, walmart and target and non-union and have lower labor cost. Those lower labor costs are passed to consumers which eventually gets most of the customers to switch.

Also yes, the health food niche retail was a good play several years back. Unfortunately, I missed the opportunity. The next opportunity I see is with these unionized retail stores going bust. They simply cannot compete. In my head, it is very clear at this point.

Quote:
I have never been in a WALMART and will never shop there. Boycott WALMART
I hear you, I don't shop there either. Personally I think the stores look disgusting and you have alot of weirdos going there. I'm just look at the economics of the situation. The bottom line is that walmart and target are outright descimating unionized retail. In 10 years, unionized retail will be non-existent. Retail consumers don't care if the cashier has health insurance or not. They don't care if they make 20$/hr or 8$/hr. All they care about is low prices.

With that being said, there is alot of money to be made shorting these unionzed retail outlets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2012, 12:40 AM
 
24,396 posts, read 26,940,258 times
Reputation: 19962
I think you are focusing too much on unions instead of the reason for example why Walmart or Whole Foods is successful. It has less to do with unions and more to do with their business model. I'd examine the specfic company and look at their business model, which does include payroll expenses compared to competitors, but I'd say that only makes up 5-10% of your decision.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2012, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,116 posts, read 17,722,983 times
Reputation: 3722
you call it "living" wage, I and the majority of americans think they are overpaid.

Thank god union membership is going down...good riddance....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,889,415 times
Reputation: 2762
I think it has to do with the business model more than unions per se.

-The supermarket chains now are somewhat analogous to where department stores were in the 60's or 70's. I.e. department stores use to carry everything. But then they got hurt by all these specialty retailers. Like foot locker, or any of the apparel companies.

I'd go back to other situations similar to where supermarkets are now. Look at other dead industries and see how they fell.

Maybe a better play than shorting would be to look at new trends....i.e. organic food. I read in the LA Times today, Whole food has gone up 12x in the last 4 years.

-What about the real estate? What are the supermarkets going to be turned into?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 09:52 PM
 
4,794 posts, read 12,372,574 times
Reputation: 8398
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
Alright, so anyone think this is an opportunity to short these stocks?

In my area most of the unionized grocery stores are having a hell of a time competing against wal-mart/target and big box discounters. Many are closing. Meanwhile new target and wal-marts are opening. We can clearly see the trend here: unionized retail is on the out and non-unionized retail is on the up.

This leads me to believe that there is a good opportunity to short the remaining unionized stores.

Supervalue (SVU) owns Albertson's stores but this stock has already been decimated. -95% loss since 2007.

Kroger (KR) is another major unionized shop that is faring better, for now. Only down -15% from 2007. Could potentially fall further.

the other is safeway (swy). Only down -50% or so from 2007.

The basic thing to take from this is that big-box & non-union is on the up and up. Target and Wal-mart and buys IMO. Meanwhile the unionized retailers are shorting opportunities. I think KR is the best one to short.

Anyone looking into this industry?
If you do short the unionized companies, just how do you go about doing that? Do you need a broker or can you DIY?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2012, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,421 posts, read 1,635,341 times
Reputation: 1751
The problem with unionized grocers is that oftentimes a large majority of the employees are part-time and aren't eligible for any of the union benefits.

I remember applying for Jewel Osco back when I was in high school. I was to be paid $6.00/hr, and then the union would take out, something like 15% or 20%... while I got pretty much none of the benefits of a union. I worked for a local movie theater for the same $6/hr instead with no union.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top