Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-25-2013, 02:25 PM
 
171 posts, read 170,728 times
Reputation: 84

Advertisements

More and more as I earn paper profits daily I wonder how flawed my thinking is. Not IF it's flawed. But how badly. It's good to be diversified right? Nasdaq 100 is a broad range of stocks / diversified somewhat? Yes tech heavy to a degree. And it's larger sticks so you miss out on diversification to small and medium cap. But certainly not fly by night / flash in pan companies. So qqq is a good ETF? What about tqqq then? Triple leveraged? Yeah it's leveraged so swings are more dramatic. All fine in this up market, just a question of knowing when to step aside as the elevator goes down? And if the market drops 33% or so, that's the end of your investment ? I'm in that etf pretty heavy at this point. How foolish is that ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-25-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: The Pacific NW.
879 posts, read 1,964,738 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestorWithQuestions View Post
What about tqqq then? Triple leveraged? Yeah it's leveraged so swings are more dramatic. All fine in this up market, just a question of knowing when to step aside as the elevator goes down? And if the market drops 33% or so, that's the end of your investment ? I'm in that etf pretty heavy at this point. How foolish is that ?
It's pretty foolish, all right. Not necessarily because of the leverage, but because you're heavily invested in something you don't really understand.

Leveraged ETFs are not really for investing at all. They're for very short-term plays. Long-term, they're very likely to suffer from price decay due to the daily resetting of leverage + compounding. And yes, if they turn against you, you'll lose so fast that the "decay" won't bother you much. I guess you could look at that as a plus, if you're a real optimist.

Quote:
And if the market drops 33% or so, that's the end of your investment ?
No, because of the aforementioned daily resetting of leverage. You can lose most of your investment fairly quickly, but the rate of loss will decrease as the price drops, and you'll never lose ALL of it. On a related note, leveraged ETFs, because of price decay, tend to reverse-split relatively frequently, so the share price will never get TOO low. (Not that that fact will affect the value of your overall investment in any way.)

Last edited by LongArm; 10-25-2013 at 03:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 03:50 PM
 
14,514 posts, read 20,726,008 times
Reputation: 8002
The QQQ is up roughly 33% this year. It has not had any reverse splits and the last split was a 2 for 1 in 2000. The Q's are the largest non-financials in the Nasdaq.

You know how many shares of QQQ you have.

When do you think the next 30% decline will happen and why?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: The Pacific NW.
879 posts, read 1,964,738 times
Reputation: 489
QQQ is NON-LEVERAGED, and as such, is not likely to reverse-split EVER. My reverse-split comment was in regards to leveraged ETFs only.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 03:58 PM
 
14,514 posts, read 20,726,008 times
Reputation: 8002
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongArm View Post
QQQ is NON-LEVERAGED, and as such, is not likely to reverse-split EVER. My reverse-split comment was in regards to leveraged ETFs.
Yes, such as the SDS or DXD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: The Pacific NW.
879 posts, read 1,964,738 times
Reputation: 489
Those are both leveraged and they both reverse-split last year. Was there a point you're trying to make?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 04:46 PM
 
14,514 posts, read 20,726,008 times
Reputation: 8002
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongArm View Post
Those are both leveraged and they both reverse-split last year. Was there a point you're trying to make?
No, but it reads like the Op owns the QQQ and they think it is a leveraged ETF.

I concurred with you about leveraged ETF's like the SDS and DXD. I've seen them fall fast and reverse splits.

The Op can better define what they own.
The QQQ or....?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: The Pacific NW.
879 posts, read 1,964,738 times
Reputation: 489
Okay, it sounded like you were arguing with me.

The way I read the OP (and it reads pretty clear to me) is that he's "in pretty heavy" with TQQQ, a leveraged ETF.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: moved
13,676 posts, read 9,756,845 times
Reputation: 23533
Exotic/risky investments have their place, but only on the fringe of one's portfolio, in a small compartment set aside for "play". If we believe that stock indices oscillate but ultimately ascend, then leveraging makes sense in theory, if the investor has the fortitude to avoid selling in a bear market, and has enough capitalization to not be forced to sell. So goes the theory. In practice, the more complicated the scenario, the better it is to be leery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2013, 03:29 PM
 
30,906 posts, read 37,029,473 times
Reputation: 34558
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestorWithQuestions View Post
More and more as I earn paper profits daily I wonder how flawed my thinking is. Not IF it's flawed. But how badly. It's good to be diversified right? Nasdaq 100 is a broad range of stocks / diversified somewhat? Yes tech heavy to a degree. And it's larger sticks so you miss out on diversification to small and medium cap. But certainly not fly by night / flash in pan companies. So qqq is a good ETF? What about tqqq then? Triple leveraged? Yeah it's leveraged so swings are more dramatic. All fine in this up market, just a question of knowing when to step aside as the elevator goes down? And if the market drops 33% or so, that's the end of your investment ? I'm in that etf pretty heavy at this point. How foolish is that ?
QQQ isn't diversified at all, as you grudgingly admit in your own post. The top 10 holdings make up 49% of the ETF. That doesn't even remotely qualify as diversified.

PowerShares QQQ (QQQ) Top Portfolio Holdings

Triple leveraging it would be like triple suicide IMO.

I say it all the time nowadays...investing is supposed to be BORING. Invest in a mix of stocks and bonds and keep adding to it. Ideally, try to put your savings in a balanced fund that does it all for you. People actually get the best returns from these funds because they don't go to extremes, and people tend to stick with them.

Funds like:

Vanguard Balanced Index (if you like Index funds). Personally I think there are better balanced funds out there than this one, but you could do a lot worse.

Vanguard Wellington
T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation
Oakmark Equity and Income
Mairs and Power Balanced
Dodge & Cox Balanced

Pick one or two of the above funds. Keep adding as much money as you reasonably can until you are ready to start living off the proceeds. Withdraw no more than 4% from your fund when you start taking distributions, ideally less.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:30 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top