Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-14-2022, 08:06 PM
 
125 posts, read 67,333 times
Reputation: 176

Advertisements

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. We have seen this movie before. This crisis is going to play out exactly like the dot com bust of 2000.

Phase one of the selloff is now over. It was precipitated by a enticipation of a shift in fed monitory policy which resulted in the unwinding of a myriad of leveraged strategies. Just like 2018 when the market sold off about 20%on expectation of QT. Now we are going to be trading range between 4300 to 3800 for a couple of months.

June is the beginning of QT. This will mark the beginning of phase 2. There will be a periodic and systematic tightening of liquidity and hence a gradual increase in long-term yields. They will probably reach 4% by December. The market will be down additional 400 points to a near pre covid high of 3400.

And the new year will bring the news of recession and financial crisis in credit and private equity markets. By the middle of 2023 market will reach a covid low of 2500. From there it will start to rise again and will reach 4800 again in 2030.

If this sounds farfetched this is exactly how it played out from 2000 to 2013
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-14-2022, 08:17 PM
 
6,632 posts, read 4,300,748 times
Reputation: 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. We have seen this movie before. This crisis is going to play out exactly like the dot com bust of 2000.

Phase one of the selloff is now over. It was precipitated by a enticipation of a shift in fed monitory policy which resulted in the unwinding of a myriad of leveraged strategies. Just like 2018 when the market sold off about 20%on expectation of QT. Now we are going to be trading range between 4300 to 3800 for a couple of months.

June is the beginning of QT. This will mark the beginning of phase 2. There will be a periodic and systematic tightening of liquidity and hence a gradual increase in long-term yields. They will probably reach 4% by December. The market will be down additional 400 points to a near pre covid high of 3400.

And the new year will bring the news of recession and financial crisis in credit and private equity markets. By the middle of 2023 market will reach a covid low of 2500. From there it will start to rise again and will reach 4800 again in 2030.

If this sounds farfetched this is exactly how it played out from 2000 to 2013
Since you seem to have an idea of where the market is headed, I assume you are shorting it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2022, 08:26 PM
 
125 posts, read 67,333 times
Reputation: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizap View Post
Since you seem to have an idea of where the market is headed, I assume you are shorting it.
I play the volatility. Sell vol when it is high and buy vol when it is low. Gives me a much better margin of error. We, humans, are very predictably unpredictable . and that's what vol represent
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2022, 09:50 PM
 
6,632 posts, read 4,300,748 times
Reputation: 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
I play the volatility. Sell vol when it is high and buy vol when it is low. Gives me a much better margin of error. We, humans, are very predictably unpredictable . and that's what vol represent
You seem to have it all figured out. :
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 11:20 AM
 
125 posts, read 67,333 times
Reputation: 176
I think I need to explain myself. All these numbers look like I just pulled out my ...... u know what . Regardless of what you may think markets are much more predictable in the very long term and very very near term. It's the timezone in the middle which is the real zone of uncertainty and how one navigates that decides one financial health.

The S&P in the long run historically has given a 10% return pa. That's why people like MJ consistently advocate a diversified portfolio and maintain discipline. This approach is a winner as long as you have an investment horizon of more than a decade at least and are able to handle large drawdowns. S&P return rate of 10% means that the index doubles around every 7 years. taking the low of 666 in 2009 by 2023 it would double by 2 times i.e 4 * 666 = 2664. Now you may ask why choose the bottom of the range. Because every business cycle starts with debt expansion and ends with deleveraging. COVID precipitated the steepest expansion and now inflation is precipitating steep deleveraging. Basically, we are experiencing an accelerated business cycle.

The very very near term is governed by technicals because most of the trading is done by computers. Computers are not random they are pseudo-random. They leave clear patterns in the price action and hence the near-term reading charts are an absolute must. And the charts are saying that we are entering a trading range with the top governed by 50 days moving average which is 4300.

You can play either time horizon just don't get caught in the middle.

Last edited by confusedOldy; 05-15-2022 at 11:42 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 01:22 PM
 
464 posts, read 314,601 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
I think I need to explain myself. All these numbers look like I just pulled out my ...... u know what . Regardless of what you may think markets are much more predictable in the very long term and very very near term. It's the timezone in the middle which is the real zone of uncertainty and how one navigates that decides one financial health.

The S&P in the long run historically has given a 10% return pa. That's why people like MJ consistently advocate a diversified portfolio and maintain discipline. This approach is a winner as long as you have an investment horizon of more than a decade at least and are able to handle large drawdowns. S&P return rate of 10% means that the index doubles around every 7 years. taking the low of 666 in 2009 by 2023 it would double by 2 times i.e 4 * 666 = 2664. Now you may ask why choose the bottom of the range. Because every business cycle starts with debt expansion and ends with deleveraging. COVID precipitated the steepest expansion and now inflation is precipitating steep deleveraging. Basically, we are experiencing an accelerated business cycle.

The very very near term is governed by technicals because most of the trading is done by computers. Computers are not random they are pseudo-random. They leave clear patterns in the price action and hence the near-term reading charts are an absolute must. And the charts are saying that we are entering a trading range with the top governed by 50 days moving average which is 4300.

You can play either time horizon just don't get caught in the middle.
Past performance does not guarantee future returns.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 01:57 PM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,430,666 times
Reputation: 13442
Yes, that one time something happened so history something something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 02:31 PM
 
7,807 posts, read 3,810,565 times
Reputation: 14722
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
The S&P in the long run historically has given a 10% return pa.
I find it useful to think in terms of real rather than nominal returns. The inflation-adjusted annual return is between 6 & 7% pa, I believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 02:50 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,573 posts, read 17,281,298 times
Reputation: 37320
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. We have seen this movie before. This crisis is going to play out exactly like the dot com bust of 2000.

Phase one of the selloff is now over. It was precipitated by a enticipation of a shift in fed monitory policy which resulted in the unwinding of a myriad of leveraged strategies. Just like 2018 when the market sold off about 20%on expectation of QT. Now we are going to be trading range between 4300 to 3800 for a couple of months.

June is the beginning of QT. This will mark the beginning of phase 2. There will be a periodic and systematic tightening of liquidity and hence a gradual increase in long-term yields. They will probably reach 4% by December. The market will be down additional 400 points to a near pre covid high of 3400.

And the new year will bring the news of recession and financial crisis in credit and private equity markets. By the middle of 2023 market will reach a covid low of 2500. From there it will start to rise again and will reach 4800 again in 2030.

If this sounds farfetched this is exactly how it played out from 2000 to 2013
"The dot-com bubble didn't spread much beyond the world of the Internet and so was the ensuing recession was the country's second shortest and second shallowest"
The Accidental Superpower, pp106.


So, IMO, we have not seen this movie before. The greatest period of prosperity ever in the world was 1990 - 2005. The world was awash with money and credit owing to the age of the Baby Boomers, who had reached their peak earning power at ages 45 to 60*.
That time is now passed, and will not return. Future generations will be taxed and burdened with providing for the elderly in almost every country.
I can't say as I know much about your price points and time and so forth, but I have been assuming a down market for a few weeks and I think it will last a very long time. Individual stocks, however, may do well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2022, 02:53 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,208 posts, read 16,693,063 times
Reputation: 33346
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedOldy View Post
I play the volatility. Sell vol when it is high and buy vol when it is low. Gives me a much better margin of error. We, humans, are very predictably unpredictable . and that's what vol represent
Sounds much like how the Elliott Wave Theory works.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top