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Old 05-13-2019, 01:04 PM
 
10,901 posts, read 6,378,571 times
Reputation: 10805

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
The “common” cold that causes a runny nose and sometimes low grade fever? No. The AD14 cold virus that kills 5% of those infected? Absolutely.
Well be careful because the criteria for the common cold meets your description of any illness that can be transmitted via casual contact. Once the law that you are hoping for goes into effect and the vaccine for common cold is done and is put on the mandate list, all kids will have to get it or be denied their right to attend school.

Do you agree that Hep A and Hep B must be required for school? Rotavirus for public school?

 
Old 05-13-2019, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,233 posts, read 30,087,636 times
Reputation: 31367
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So when the vaccine to prevent colds comes out, you’ll favor school mandates for it? Either get the vaccine to prevent getting a cold or forgo school?
Every vaccine for which there is a school mandate can cause serious disability or death. Despite your attempts to trivialize measles and other VPDs, these are dangerous infections, much more dangerous than the vaccines that prevent them.

If the benefits did not exceed the risks, the vaccines would not exist.
 
Old 05-14-2019, 04:58 AM
 
13,051 posts, read 16,108,001 times
Reputation: 15249
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

If the benefits did not exceed the risks, the vaccines would not exist.
HAHAHAHA....you mean...if the PROFIT did not exceed the risks, the vaccines would not exist.
 
Old 05-14-2019, 06:42 AM
 
7,322 posts, read 4,973,270 times
Reputation: 14374
Cost of 1 tetanus shot: $80. Cost of treating 1 kid for tetanus: $811,000.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...story,amp.html
 
Old 05-14-2019, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,233 posts, read 30,087,636 times
Reputation: 31367
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
HAHAHAHA....you mean...if the PROFIT did not exceed the risks, the vaccines would not exist.
You can pay drug companies for vaccines or you can pay them for drugs to treat vaccine preventable diseases and their complications. The companies would make more treating the diseases than they do on vaccines. Then there are the other costs associated with treatment, including hospital and physician charges and lost wages and productivity.

Vaccines save money for the health care system overall.
 
Old 05-14-2019, 07:31 AM
 
10,901 posts, read 6,378,571 times
Reputation: 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You can pay drug companies for vaccines or you can pay them for drugs to treat vaccine preventable diseases and their complications. The companies would make more treating the diseases than they do on vaccines. Then there are the other costs associated with treatment, including hospital and physician charges and lost wages and productivity.

Vaccines save money for the health care system overall.
Would you support a vaccine for the common cold to be added to the required for school schedule? No exemptions other then medical. Why or why not?
 
Old 05-14-2019, 08:50 AM
 
517 posts, read 320,427 times
Reputation: 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Cost of 1 tetanus shot: $80. Cost of treating 1 kid for tetanus: $811,000.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...story,amp.html

This is exactly why if anything is really mandated, the source will be more likely a heavy push by insurance companies rather than the government itself. Why should they spend millions and millions to treat a dozen kids who get vaccine-preventable illnesses when they all could have been vaccinated and avoided the disease altogether for far less than a thousand bucks? For all those concerned about pharmaceutical company profits.... You're looking at the wrong issue here - when it becomes more about money than anything else - and eventually it will be - there'll be movement like you've never seen before because insurance companies don't mess around with money - they likely have teams of people tracking spending related to anti-vaxxers right now. If you want the freedom to avoid vaccines, you'll likely eventually have the freedom to pay for the results of that entirely on your own.

I personally know someone who refused to vaccinate her kids and her daughter got a bad cut in a barn and contracted tetanus. These are not third-world poverty folks. This is in the USA. Kids play outside and things happen. Luckily they took her to the hospital at the first sign of it and the first sign was severe spasms in her extremities (hands and feet) rather than other more lethal areas. She was tested for a bunch of other possibilities, because diagnosis of tetanus involves a lot of elimination of other potential causes, and ultimately diagnosed with tetanus and treated for it. Lots of costs in otherwise unnecessary testing, a large part of a week in a children's hospital, and antitoxins, sedatives, etc -- all of that can't be cheap. You can bet their insurance took notice of it.

I'm glad her child was OK in the end but what a bunch of unnecessary suffering and cost.
 
Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,233 posts, read 30,087,636 times
Reputation: 31367
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Would you support a vaccine for the common cold to be added to the required for school schedule? No exemptions other then medical. Why or why not?
There will not be a vaccine for "the common cold" because there are too many viruses that cause cold symptoms. If there were a single "cold" virus that had a significant risk of morbidity and mortality, yes I would.

Are there any vaccines for which you support school mandates?
 
Old 05-14-2019, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Washington state
5,610 posts, read 3,055,915 times
Reputation: 17280
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
That "something" has also DAMAGED or KILLED a LOT of people, a lot of infants and children.

Having had shingles doesn't give you the OK to be insulting to those who think differently than you do.

Where do YOU get your info from?

If an "ounce of sense" means I have to think like you......forget it.
Nobody's insulting you. You do that all by yourself.

And if you think a lot of people have been damaged or killed by vaccines, then you haven't seen anything yet. Wait until we have the damaged and dead people from epidemics if those get going.

And you answered your own question about where I get my info from. I HAD shingles. I talk to my doctors about it and get their opinions. I talk to my pharmacist. I ask questions. I read the responses of the people posting here.

I read science journals online, like Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.htmlA and I read science magazines like Discover and Scientific American. I've read over 30 books on diseases and epidemics and that gives me a pretty good overview of what's going on, even though there's always a delay between what's currently happening and reading about it in print.

And I did take biology and science classes in high school and college. Disease, epidemics, and vaccines were covered at least once.

Where do you get your info from? A doctor who made up a fake report and a TV actress.

You read The Coming Plague by Laurie Garrett and then come back to me and we'll talk about vaccination. Meantime, this is by Gordon Scott and he says it pretty accurately:

How Anti-vaxxers Sound to the Rest of Us

I almost choked to death eating food. I did my own research and discovered I was not alone. Thousands of people choke every year when they're eating, and hundreds of those people die. That's why I don't feed my kids. It's dangerous. Now plenty of people will point out that food supposedly "prevents starvation", and that might be true, but it's not fair to completely ignore all the dangers food poses, like choking, allergies, gingivitis, and garlic breath. I'm just saying, do your own research and decide what you think is best for your kids. If you choose to give your kids potentially deadly food, that's your problem, but as a parent, I don't think the government has any right to tell me that I need to feed my kids.





Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Measles was declared eliminated, it’s never been declared eradicated.

Did you know that CO had just one case of measles that never spread to anyone else in spite of the fact that all three exemptions are allowed?

Are you aware that anyone who has had either the chicken pox vaccine or chicken pox can get shingles?

Where do you get YOUR information? It’s not very accurate.
Measles has not been eradicated in the world. But it had been eradicated in the US in 2000, which is what I said. But if it makes you happy, I'll say they were eliminated in the US in 2000.

Are you aware that California has brought down the number of measles cases there since they started not accepting personal exemptions for reasons not to vaccinate?

I am very aware you can get shingles after having the vaccine. But if it makes them even a smidgen less awful than full blown shingles, that's still better.

As for where I get my information? As I told whatshisname above, I read. I read books on diseases and epidemics. I read science journals. I talk to my doctors. And again, I've had shingles. That may not make me an expert on them, but I can sure tell you what it's like to experience them. So believe me when I tell you: You. Don't. Want. Them.

You can survive a broken leg. But would you stand there waiting for someone to break it for you without trying to protect yourself first? And do you think if you have to break a leg, maybe the smallest possible break is still better than the worst one?

Listening to people talk about not wanting to get vaccinated is like listening to them telling everyone a broken leg is nothing and it's something we should all aspire to.

Last edited by rodentraiser; 05-14-2019 at 11:03 AM..
 
Old 05-14-2019, 01:32 PM
 
7,141 posts, read 3,970,113 times
Reputation: 7949
m
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedLife View Post
This is exactly why if anything is really mandated, the source will be more likely a heavy push by insurance companies rather than the government itself. Why should they spend millions and millions to treat a dozen kids who get vaccine-preventable illnesses when they all could have been vaccinated and avoided the disease altogether for far less than a thousand bucks? For all those concerned about pharmaceutical company profits.... You're looking at the wrong issue here - when it becomes more about money than anything else - and eventually it will be - there'll be movement like you've never seen before because insurance companies don't mess around with money - they likely have teams of people tracking spending related to anti-vaxxers right now. If you want the freedom to avoid vaccines, you'll likely eventually have the freedom to pay for the results of that entirely on your own.

I personally know someone who refused to vaccinate her kids and her daughter got a bad cut in a barn and contracted tetanus. These are not third-world poverty folks. This is in the USA. Kids play outside and things happen. Luckily they took her to the hospital at the first sign of it and the first sign was severe spasms in her extremities (hands and feet) rather than other more lethal areas. She was tested for a bunch of other possibilities, because diagnosis of tetanus involves a lot of elimination of other potential causes, and ultimately diagnosed with tetanus and treated for it. Lots of costs in otherwise unnecessary testing, a large part of a week in a children's hospital, and antitoxins, sedatives, etc -- all of that can't be cheap. You can bet their insurance took notice of it.

I'm glad her child was OK in the end but what a bunch of unnecessary suffering and cost.
Key word there is barn. Same as that boy who caught tetanus on the family farm. How many people get tetanus from getting cut with their kitchen knives or PAPER CUTS?
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