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Old 05-10-2019, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,337 posts, read 30,140,673 times
Reputation: 31528

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Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
That's great....parents who home school should not have to pay school taxes then either...should they.
By that reasoning only those with children in public school should pay school taxes. My children went to a private school but I still paid school taxes. No children in school since 1996 but still pay school taxes.

 
Old 05-10-2019, 09:56 AM
 
55,186 posts, read 43,969,878 times
Reputation: 34505
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
Give up suzy_q2010. Common sense will not change purehuman's mind, nor will facts.


Purehuman has a right not to have her children vaccinated. So does the school districts in not allowing her kids to go to school unvaccinated and expose other families to preventable diseases. The answer for her is called home schooling through the monitoring of the local school. Her rights end when they trample on the rights of others.
100% agree.

However, people that make stuff up in order to try to convince others to do the same is not something I would personally want on my conscience.

With regards to the wild death claims around vaccines, we had someone post up a study a year or two back on a vaccine test in India where a number of girls that had been given it had died.

As we dug into the study, I found that they were including ALL deaths. Drowning, car accidents and even a snake bite or two. That's about par for the course in the vaccination discussions though.

P.S. There will eventually be a large polio outbreak in the anti-vax community and the resultant carnage and collateral damage leading to lawsuits will put this to rest. The issue today is that vaccines did such a good job eradicating these horrible diseases that many just don't see the benefit but then fixate on negatives (without even touching on the validity of those perceptions). Just going to take a brutal reminder, but that's nature for you, it's going to happen.
 
Old 05-10-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Kansas City North
244 posts, read 112,957 times
Reputation: 333
It's absolutely cringey; the rhetoric of anti-vaxxers. I'm a pharmacy student and I just dismiss this garbage. It's because it's a garbage conspiracy theory that is affecting actual children's lives that makes it absolutely disgusting.
 
Old 05-10-2019, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Washington state
5,610 posts, read 3,063,386 times
Reputation: 17280
Anti-vaxxers are people who would rather swim across a crocodile infested river because they just "know" the bridge is unsafe and has a .0001% chance of collapsing.

Edited to add: So I just got my shingles vaccine and the pneumonia vaccine yesterday. I've had shingles and never want it again. I just wish they had started giving the vaccine to people younger than 65 years and years ago. So far I haven't been frothing at the mouth, turning into a monster, or seeing visions. I just have a sore arm and that's to be expected.

I still might get shingles and pneumonia (big maybe) but at least I'm doing something about it instead of standing out in the open like a numbnuts waiting for it to strike me down.

I'm not religious, but do you remember the story of the man on his roof and the rescuers he kept waving off? This is the same thing. If you believe in God, then he's sent you the vaccines to stay safe. Don't go whining to him when your kids are injured or die because you turned them down. That's not his fault, its yours.

Last edited by rodentraiser; 05-10-2019 at 10:46 AM..
 
Old 05-10-2019, 01:35 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 517,205 times
Reputation: 3991
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedLife View Post
...
I understand the OP is likely too heavily into a conspiratorial mindset to accept this new information, although I offer it genuinely in the hopes it will be reviewed. I'm posting this for others who might come across it and need real information to make an informed decision.
I hate to get in the middle of vax vs. anti-vax discussion.
Both sides are fanatics without a common sense and without proper information based oh FACTS. ( Learn how the vaccine “studies” are done and who is doing it- then speak)

However, have to defend OP here from your rabid self righteous vitriol.
The OP did not say he is against vaccines. He just wanted to DELAY vaccination due to his common sense and possibly doing a research on the subject.
If you do not have the answer to the OP question- you should not comment and turn into political discussion.

To the OP: you may need to visit a few pediatricians and discuss your preferences.
Having the right pediatrician is not only about vaccines- it is so much more.
Whoever listens to you and understands your point- this could be the one you can trust with the care of your child.
Just getting the name off the forum may not give you a long term result: you want a relationship with the pediatrician, not just someone who can do what you ask them at one point or another. Trust- that what matters - on both sides of the doctor- patient.
Maybe you should visit some support groups for affected children and see if anyone still like their pediatrician?

One more. In old countries there was a tradition to keep babies mostly at home until they are about 1 y o.
The babies were not in public that much.
Now it makes sense from an immunity point of view- the babies with not developed yet immune system were protected by mothers immune system if they are BREASTFED. ( of course modern mothers may not have immunity to diseases as they were vaccinated or due to simple fact that the childhood diseases were already on decline due to sanitation and hygiene education)
At around 12-18 month the baby’ s immune system is more mature so they are out more in public.
Something for you to think...
Sorry, just realized- old post I am responding to

Last edited by Nik4me; 05-10-2019 at 02:32 PM..
 
Old 05-10-2019, 02:07 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 517,205 times
Reputation: 3991
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedLife View Post
Madagascar is experiencing a measles outbreak right now. Of the more than 115,000 sickened so far, 1200 have died, most of them children. Only 58% of the population is vaccinated.

https://www.apnews.com/0cd4deb8141742b5903fbef3cb0e8afa
(To the OP,
Don’t be scared to submission by unethical information posted by blessed life- read my reply)

It is not a valid argument: no research that you like so much ( without quotes, of course) will accept comparison of US children and children of Madagascar dying from cases of measles.
Madagascar is one of the poorest countries in the world: data from a few years ago place 90% of population below poverty level.

https://www.humanium.org/en/madagascar/

You know that the measles and it’s outcome is related to nutrition? Mainly a lack of vitamin A in diet?
Don’t believe me?

Here, I will quote your favorite source that you like - the PubMed! But wait!
I will do one even better- how about a quote from CDC? Do you trust them? Is it good enough for you?
That should be even better?
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/9/11-1701_article
 
Old 05-10-2019, 02:21 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 517,205 times
Reputation: 3991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
This MTHFR stuff and vaccines is a bunch of hooey.
https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...s-facts-myths/

All vaccines are tested for safety and efficacy.

It is untrue that vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued.
https://violentmetaphors.com/2013/11...lin-mcroberts/

Measles absolutely was a big killer pre-vaccine. In the decade before the vaccine, about 400-500 kids died from measles every year in the US. About 100-150 died from chickenpox, with half those deaths in the 5% of cases that were in adults.
Were those who died were immune compromised?
That what I have read

Last edited by Nik4me; 05-10-2019 at 02:32 PM..
 
Old 05-10-2019, 03:54 PM
 
7,372 posts, read 4,993,281 times
Reputation: 14494
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
That's great....parents who home school should not have to pay school taxes then either...should they.
Sure they should. Just like childless people or those like me who sent their kids to private school. Just because someone opts out of public school doesn’t mean they’re off the hook for helping fund it.
 
Old 05-10-2019, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
25,337 posts, read 30,140,673 times
Reputation: 31528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
( Learn how the vaccine “studies” are done and who is doing it- then speak)

One more. In old countries there was a tradition to keep babies mostly at home until they are about 1 y o.
The babies were not in public that much.
Now it makes sense from an immunity point of view- the babies with not developed yet immune system were protected by mothers immune system if they are BREASTFED. ( of course modern mothers may not have immunity to diseases as they were vaccinated or due to simple fact that the childhood diseases were already on decline due to sanitation and hygiene education)
At around 12-18 month the baby’ s immune system is more mature so they are out more in public.
Something for you to think...
Sorry, just realized- old post I am responding to
Would you care to explain the concern you have with the way vaccine studies are done? Perhaps take a study and critique it for us?

Sanitation cannot prevent measles, which is airborne and so infectious you can catch it just from breathing the air in a room that someone with measles was in two hours ago. Improved sanitation actually increased the incidence of polio.

https://www.insidescience.org/news/c...radicate-polio

People who are vaccinated for measles have a 97% chance of being immune. Antibodies to measles are transferred via the placenta, not so much in breast milk, which provides more protection against intestinal infections.

Deaths from vaccine preventable diseases declined before vaccines for them were introduced but the number of cases did not. After vaccines are introduced the number of cases drops precipitously, sometimes to zero, at which point there are no deaths because no one is catching the disease.

There is no benefit to delaying vaccines. It just extends the time frame during which the child is at risk to get the diseases that vaccines protect against. Even "Dr. Bob" Sears of alternative schedule fame admits it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post

You know that the measles and it’s outcome is related to nutrition? Mainly a lack of vitamin A in diet?
Don’t believe me?

Here, I will quote your favorite source that you like - the PubMed! But wait!
I will do one even better- how about a quote from CDC? Do you trust them? Is it good enough for you?
That should be even better?
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/9/11-1701_article

People have died from measles in first world countries, too. Adequate vitamin A intake is no guarantee against fatality. High dose vitamin A is, in fact part of the standard treatment for measles.

Frank vitamin A deficiency is unusual in the US.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vi...hProfessional/

"The effectiveness of vitamin A supplementation to treat measles in countries, such as the United States, where vitamin A intakes are usually adequate is uncertain."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
Were those who died were immune compromised? That what I have read
Where have you read it? Care to share your source?

Yes immune compromised people are at greater risk of serious complications. They also cannot be vaccinated in many cases because the MMR contains live, though weakened viruses. That is why it is important to maintain high vaccination rates to sustain herd immunity so immunocompromised people have less risk of being exposed to the infection. However, perfectly healthy people can die from measles. One of them was author Roald Dahl's daughter Olivia.

https://www.roalddahlfans.com/dahls-...erous-illness/
 
Old 05-11-2019, 02:34 PM
 
55,186 posts, read 43,969,878 times
Reputation: 34505
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Sure they should. Just like childless people or those like me who sent their kids to private school. Just because someone opts out of public school doesn’t mean they’re off the hook for helping fund it.
^^^Yep.

It's a community, we're all part of that even if we don't use the schools, the tennis court, the programs for retirees or a host of other activities.
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