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Old 11-24-2007, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,749,646 times
Reputation: 1209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Iowa View Post
Calm down Pepe.

Please provide specific examples as to how Iowa is forward-moving & forward thinking. .

To be fair, the burden of proof is on you here.
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:32 AM
 
166 posts, read 576,391 times
Reputation: 38
Default Cannot Prove Iowa as Forward...

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
To be fair, the burden of proof is on you here.
I am disappointed to find that in two years I really could not defend this state as forward moving or foward thinking. I primarily fall into the anti-Iowa category. However, the passionate but primarily negative defenses I see for this state only ever spew "...then leave" sentiment. I would like, for once, a pro-Iowan individual to come accross with valid points rather than backward remarks. No burden here...
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,749,646 times
Reputation: 1209
Define "forward thinking". That's kind of a subjective term, really. I believe that some things that people might think of as "forward thinking" aren't going to be so "forward" to other people.

Remember, we have one of the highest state average IQ's, some of the best school systems and we're generally thought of as level-headed, rational and modest people. We know what we're doing (usually) and we (usually) have a good reason why or why not. People in other states can spend $300 on a fancy meal or pass reactionary progressive legislation but it doesn't mean they're always right.
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:50 AM
 
Location: in the general vicinity of Cedar Rapids, Iowa
296 posts, read 1,188,679 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Iowa View Post
I just found Des Moines a surefie hit for a day or weekend trip.
Yes, indeed! I find the Twin Cities a sure-fire hit for a weekend trip, myself, but I don't want to LIVE there. Too much traffic, too many people for me. I like to live somewhere more simple and visit the more "bustley" places. That's why people choose to live in smaller communities such as Cedar Rapids, something you really should have taken into account before moving here!

You see, the things you are talking about all depend on the size of the population there is to support them. Cedar Rapids doesn't have a children's museum and depends instead on the Exploratorium in Coralville because the area population is not big enough to support two such places. The exhibits change more frequently at the Des Moines museum because it is bigger and has more money than the Cedar Rapids Science Station... and because there is a bigger pool of volunteers working with the establishment -- places like these all depend heavily on the involvement of the community!

I admit to having some frustration with Cedar Rapids, myself, but you need to understand that if you move to a town of 120,000, it will not have all the amenities you are accustomed to in the Twin Cities. Fact o' life, not the fault of Iowans or Cedar Rapidians!
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:18 AM
 
Location: in the general vicinity of Cedar Rapids, Iowa
296 posts, read 1,188,679 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
Define "forward thinking". That's kind of a subjective term, really. I believe that some things that people might think of as "forward thinking" aren't going to be so "forward" to other people.
Good point, El Rhino. Now, PhillyPhan and Not For Iowa seem to be a little vague on the subject, so I'm going to take a stab at it. You know I'm one of the most rabid Cedar Rapids backers on the forum, so I'm saying this with fond concern

Cedar Rapids is a bit "stuck" right now. Maybe it's been stuck for a long time and "business as usual" government and the telecom boom and bust all just kind of confused the issue. It's still a terrific little city. The problem is that people have been talking about doing great things for a couple of decades now -- "great things" being anything that is going to make a splash, make Cedar Rapids more "fun," more attractive to tourism, better able to grow. Renovation of the riverside downtown, transformation of the old packing plant "brownfield" location, even development of the landfill ("Mount Trashmore") have all been discussed extensively (who can forget the proposed whitewater racing course? I really miss that one!).

Possibly out of frustration that more wasn't happening, Cedar Rapids changed its form of government from a bunch of full time commissioners of various departments to part-time city council members and a city manager. We still have a mayor (I think. We don't hear a lot from her!).

The new City Manager, Jim Prosser, strikes me as an incredible guy -- smart, savvy, and with experience in a lot of other cities across the country. He's come in and analyzed the budget first thing, which makes sense to me. Turns out, we don't have any money. The reason why remains unclear, and that's the thing that bothers me the most. Mr. Prosser said in an interview a few months after he started that Iowa's tax laws penalize the big cities like Des Moines and CR to subsidize the rural economy. I think that sounds likely, but I REALLY want to know how other rural states do things differently, and what the penalizing actually means to the cities -- what is the budget of a comparable-sized city in a state where the cities get to keep their tax money? I mean, our library is likely to close its only branch and cut back on other services, and that is so sad. In that other city WITH money, how much does the library get, and what is it able to do that ours can't? Are there any OTHER differences about that other library -- more volunteers, less overhead because of a donated or shared facility, etc? And I'm just using that as an example -- I want to know that about the city overall! This is clearly something we need to look at as a state -- I love the small towns and don't want to harm them, either. But if there are alternatives to the way we do things, well, we should understand what they are!

Recently, Mr. Prosser floated a trial balloon that involved selling a portion of a very popular (very populist!) golf course for an "upscale retail development." A lot of people threw figurative (as far as I know) rotten tomatoes, while others were like, "yeah, baby, bring on the Pottery Barn!" Honestly, I don't know whether Prosser was actually excited by the proposal or not, but I will tell you one thing -- it got people talking and thinking for a change about how things COULD be different! More genius points for Prosser, in my book!

We have the "Fifteen in Five" project, to bring 15 consensus-driven improvements to the area within 5 years. That's classic Iowan, isn't it? To get everyone together and decide on the goals and timeline, not just the government but actually poll the populace about it? But there are a lot of hard decisions to be made, a lot of work to be done, and then there's that "no money" problem... Members of those committees have to be pretty frustrated, themselves.

What I think we really need most right now is a translator or two -- people who can describe the situation for the newspaper and on the radio (and on the internet!) to the community in a way that folks can understand what's going on and why it's that way. Sort of a voice-over for the process, the part at the front of the show where it brings new viewers (and those who lost track) up to speed. "Previously, in Cedar Rapids,...." I don't think our communication is very good at all. The Gazette seems to need to limit its "analysis" of the various processes to about 12 column inches every month or two, although the dangers of putting holiday leftovers down the disposal rate top mention on all media <sigh>.

I know the city will turn it around. It's just that kind of place. But I will admit to being a little frustrated, too, just about now.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:38 AM
 
1,911 posts, read 3,349,311 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
To be fair, the burden of proof is on you here.
You've used two standard "defenses" that come up over and over again. First, you jokingly asking mfrerkes if childhood abuse is the reason for him not viewing Iowa how you do.

Second, you tried to pull "the flip" on the person who said Iowa isn't forward thinking.

It's always either...

person who doesn't view Iowa how you'd like them to

A. Has some kind of previous mental issues that need to be resolved

B. Doesn't know what they're talking about so might as well turn the argument on them
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:58 AM
 
204 posts, read 940,059 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Iowa View Post
mfrerkes, I would like to know how the value of an educational + entertaining trip to the childrens museum in Des Moines is of less value than giving a toddler a bunch of pizza to eat? What else can you share of Cedar Rapids that may be of a more...intellectual value than eating at a chain resaraunt, which I specifically mentioned in my post above as a boring downside of this area?
Cedar Rapids may not have a zoo or a museum, but there are closer cities than Des Moines which do have those things. Dubuque has a top-notch aquarium and indoor water park which small children would love. The Quad Cities has the Putnam museum (which attracts some big exhibits) and Niabi Zoo just spent millions upgrading their facilities. There's also a children's museum in Bettendorf. When I lived near Mason City, I took my girlfriend and her niece and nephew there. They absolutely loved it.

If your complaint is driving four hours round-trip for children's educational venues, then try Dubuque or the Quad Cities which is half that distance.
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,749,646 times
Reputation: 1209
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieJonez View Post
First, you jokingly asking mfrerkes if childhood abuse is the reason for him not viewing Iowa how you do.


No, I wasn't joking. I could care less what either of you think of Des Moines, really. It's just kind of funny that every time someone says something positive about Des Moines, one or both of you have to come in and say something.

Ronnie, I think you're just a bitter kid. You think you're smarter than everyone else and the way you show it is by "lashing out" on internet forums. I don't think it has much to do with Des Moines, it's just that you've made yourself into a victim of this pro-Des Moines conspiracy that isn't there (people in Des Moines would think of their city as more of a Paris than Cedar Rapids? Come on... Trust me, I've lived here all of my life and we would think of ourselves as more like Cedar Rapids/Davenport than Minneapolis or Kansas City).

I think mrfrekes thinks of himself as a small fish in a small pond and feels some animosity towards the bigger fish (Des Moines) in this small pond so he's going to attempt to discredit Des Moines.


It's ok, gentlemen. Let's discuss our true feelings here and get everything out.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:27 PM
 
1,911 posts, read 3,349,311 times
Reputation: 911
Again, let's not play Freud here. It's something done way too often by the pro-DSM crew.

You don't like Des Moines as much as we do! Then you have serious mental issues! Please, it is so ridiculous.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,749,646 times
Reputation: 1209
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieJonez View Post

You don't like Des Moines as much as we do! Then you have serious mental issues! Please, it is so ridiculous.

I don't think that you don't like Des Moines, Ronnie, I can find posts where you've said otherwise. I just think that you like to create boogeymen for yourself to give yourself something to lash out against and an outlet for your energy..the boogeyman you created was this massive pro-Des Moines conspiracy.

Denial is a natural stage in addressing your own issues. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards truly addressing these issues. I'm here to help whenever you need to talk, Ronnie. You too, Mrfrekes.

- Ryan.
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