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Old 12-01-2010, 11:05 AM
 
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^ I would agree with this. Some of the most racist white people I've seen are those who have very little to do with african americans in their daily life (don't interact much). They normally say very biased, ignorant and hurtful things. The most racist black people I've dealt with or been around (my roommate of 5 years taught on the far west side) were those of very low income. Some of the stories my roommate told were very shocking. There were a lot of people in that neighborhood that absolutely hated and didn't trust any white people further than they could throw them. It seemed to be more hostile and tense than the ignorant verbal offenses coming out of the whites.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
^ I would agree with this. Some of the most racist white people I've seen are those who have very little to do with african americans in their daily life (don't interact much). They normally say very biased, ignorant and hurtful things. The most racist black people I've dealt with or been around (my roommate of 5 years taught on the far west side) were those of very low income. Some of the stories my roommate told were very shocking. There were a lot of people in that neighborhood that absolutely hated and didn't trust any white people further than they could throw them. It seemed to be more hostile and tense than the ignorant verbal offenses coming out of the whites.
And how do you think white people who are raised in racist black environments where they stick out like a sore thumb end up? Hating them back. Imagine how it was for the white guy on the block when he was there witnessing those "shocking stories". Do you think he grew up to be a tolerant liberal or more than a little hateful?

I'm not talking about the ignoramus who has barley ever met a black person before. I'm talking about the "blacks are the real racists in this country," "white people are the real oppressed people in this country" and "why are they allowed to have black pride and we aren't allowed to have white pride?" types. It's easier to hold this perspective when you have a limited worldview that doesn't stretch out very far from where you live.

Anyway, I myself was one of the only white guys on my block growing up. My upbringing is middle class. I've attended majority black schools my whole life, including the community college I currently attend. I'm not as old as you and I'm definitely not a white collar professional who lives on the north side of the city.

Hey, I can tell you a story too! This one's about the far south suburbs though.
When I was a senior year in high school, inscribed on the boys bathroom wall was: "Goddamn ngers run this school!"

Last edited by urza216; 12-01-2010 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
And how do you think white people who are raised in racist black environments where they stick out like a sore thumb end up? Hating them back. Imagine how it was for the white guy on the block when he was there witnessing those "shocking stories". Do you think he grew up to be a tolerant liberal or more than a little hateful?

I'm not talking about the ignoramus who has barley ever met a black person before. I'm talking about the "blacks are the real racists in this country," "white people are the real oppressed people in this country" and "why are they allowed to have black pride and we aren't allowed to have white pride?" types. It's easier to hold this perspective when you have a limited worldview that doesn't stretch out very far from where you live.

Anyway, I myself was one of the only white guys on my block growing up. My upbringing is middle class. I've attended majority black schools my whole life, including the community college I currently attend. I'm not as old as you and I'm definitely not a white collar professional who lives on the north side of the city.

Hey, I can tell you a story too! This one's about the far south suburbs though.
When I was a senior year in high school, inscribed on the boys bathroom wall was: "Goddamn ngers run this school!"

I had the similar experience of being one of the few Black kids in my middle school. My father decided that our old neighborhood was getting rough and figured "let's move further out, into the rural areas". He knew nothing about where we were moving to. To make a long story short, we moved to a place that was "pickup trucks, confederate flags,etc." To say the least I had some problems adjusting culturally and socially, as well as my father. I had a middle class up bringing as well. My father's intention was to live in a safer neighborhood. More things happened to me in Paulding County than in the neighborhood my father wanted to get away from. Within 7 months of living in Paulding County, I got shot with a paintball gun by some teenager who thought it would be "funny". He was a White guy. The next year, someone destroyed the mailbox. When the Black population went from 3% to 9%(between 1990-2001), this is when I saw racial tensions get bad. There are some stories on both sides, Black and White. Alot of the tension got worse after the Dixie Outifitter shirts(which feature the Confederate flag) were banned. Alot of fights occurred over that.
My experience in high school kind of left me jaded, but I still don't hate anyone of any race. I was basically(and still am) an African-American male with a strong nerdy streak. There was actually a time where I felt like I had to act a certain way to fit in. I didn't live up to any of the stereotypes expected of me as a Black person. I caught crap from some Black kids as well as White kids. Some of the Black students didn't see me as "Black enough" and some of the White kids just didn't like me. Some White kids make "Carlton jokes" about me.

And some of the White people you were describing, I ran into a few of them out there too.
As for the bathroom with some bad language, I found a Nazi swastika drawn on a wall in a classroom, and another one drawn on a locker. Strangely enough, at my university, I have seen some racially motivated stuff written in the bathroom stalls.

What is more interesting is that you mentioned that the most hateful White persons you have been around lived in Black neighborhoods(particularly poor ones). Why is it that I don't find the same pattern with Black kids who grow up the same way?

My father later said Paulding County would be a nice place to retire, but a bad place to raise a kid, especially a Black kid. I no longer live there.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:44 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
We actually grew up in town in Iowa City. All the kids in the neighborhood would always leave their bikes laying around everywhere - no one even thought for a second about it being stolen! Hell, we use to leave the front door unlocked and open from dawn to dusk, even when we'd leave. When it was nice out all the ground floor windows were wide open 24 hours a day.

Whenever we'd leave the garage door open all day on accident while at school/work, the frustration entirely had to do with the "weather" getting into the garage, snow, rain, wind, etc. Never once did we think someone might actually walk into our house or steal anything. That all started changing around the mid 1990's though. Not because of any bad influences or a change in the community, more just because the world was growing up, and Iowa City was growing much larger than the smaller town it was when my dad moved to town in the 50's and I grew up there in the 80's.

When my dad moved there in the 50's the area had a population of around 45,000. That had grown to 80,000 when I was born, and today is around 130,000.

I like that the city is growing, but I really miss the laid back, carefree and worry-free lifestyle from back 20-30 years ago.
My impression is of Iowa City is that it's still a pretty laid back, care free city. When I went there summer 2010, everyone parked their cars with the windows rolled up. A neighbor stopped by the house I was staying at and just walked right in because the doors were unlocked.

As for bikes in the yard, I didn't see any during my recent stay in Iowa City. I'm extra sensitive to bike theft because I know how much it sucks. You're not just stealing from someone. You're leaving them stranded somewhere. But when you leave your bike outside a business and lying on the sidewalk unlocked, I can understand the "finders keepers" mindset and how a thief might not even think of it as theft. Is it "theft" when you pick up a quarter someone dropped on the ground? No, of course not. A bike lock isn't just a safety precaution but a way marking your territory too. It establishes that your bike isn't something someone left somewhere but rather, it belongs to whoever owns the bike lock.

When a neighbor just walks right in an unlocked door, this also says something about the lack of the territorial mindset.. We knew she was coming over but that doesn't change the fact that she just walked right in without ringing the doorbell.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 8,004,267 times
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Default My Story in a Nutshell :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I had the similar experience of being one of the few Black kids in my middle school. My father decided that our old neighborhood was getting rough and figured "let's move further out, into the rural areas". He knew nothing about where we were moving to. To make a long story short, we moved to a place that was "pickup trucks, confederate flags,etc." To say the least I had some problems adjusting culturally and socially, as well as my father. I had a middle class up bringing as well. My father's intention was to live in a safer neighborhood. More things happened to me in Paulding County than in the neighborhood my father wanted to get away from. Within 7 months of living in Paulding County, I got shot with a paintball gun by some teenager who thought it would be "funny". He was a White guy. The next year, someone destroyed the mailbox. When the Black population went from 3% to 9%(between 1990-2001), this is when I saw racial tensions get bad. There are some stories on both sides, Black and White. Alot of the tension got worse after the Dixie Outifitter shirts(which feature the Confederate flag) were banned. Alot of fights occurred over that.
My experience in high school kind of left me jaded, but I still don't hate anyone of any race. I was basically(and still am) an African-American male with a strong nerdy streak. There was actually a time where I felt like I had to act a certain way to fit in. I didn't live up to any of the stereotypes expected of me as a Black person. I caught crap from some Black kids as well as White kids. Some of the Black students didn't see me as "Black enough" and some of the White kids just didn't like me. Some White kids make "Carlton jokes" about me.

And some of the White people you were describing, I ran into a few of them out there too.
As for the bathroom with some bad language, I found a Nazi swastika drawn on a wall in a classroom, and another one drawn on a locker. Strangely enough, at my university, I have seen some racially motivated stuff written in the bathroom stalls.

What is more interesting is that you mentioned that the most hateful White persons you have been around lived in Black neighborhoods(particularly poor ones). Why is it that I don't find the same pattern with Black kids who grow up the same way?

My father later said Paulding County would be a nice place to retire, but a bad place to raise a kid, especially a Black kid. I no longer live there.
When I went to high school, any racial tensions where mostly underneath difference of musical tastes. Not necessarily the case but from my memory, this had a lot to do with it. During assemblies and dances, it was all rap and R&B. No rock, no punk, no nothing. There was no "white music" that our cheerleading squad with only one white girl danced to during assemblies.

We interacted with each other in the classroom but once you walked into the cafeteria, the table-by-table racial segregation was obvious. The few Asian kids at the school usually sat at a white table and the few Hispanics at the school usually sat a black table. I was a punk and sat in the corner with the punks, skaters, goths, emos, ect... You know, basically all the different high school "counter culture" groups that on the TV supposedly don't get along. But these TV shows and movies aren't depicting an approximately 80% black high school. I'm 24 and although I fell out of touch with almost everybody from high school, I'm still friends with one of the kids who sat at my table. He was the black gothic kid who listened to heavy metal. He's still one of my best friends today. We really weren't divided by race, in theory. We were divided by dress attire and music. But very few black kids dressed like us or listened to our music.

I've lived in southern Cook County for most of my life. Since age 18, I've lived a little further south just across the county line in eastern Will County. I always dreamed of moving to the city (Chicago) but I never had the money or means. As I get older, I wonder if I ever will. By the way, I'm 24 and a returning college student.

I was never raised prejudice and my life experiences have never left me jaded. All the kids who bullied me on the playground were black guys. Most of my childhood friends were black and it wasn't till I was a teenager that this really started to change. When I was in 8th grade I got jumped by a group of black guys in downtown Park Forest (that's mostly empty storefronts, BTW). They went to school with me. More recently, I've had groups of black guys try to intimidate me for no particular reason. I just shrug it off. I know this area like the back of my hand and I'm no outsider. I don't fall into that bullsh*t of hating someone for the color of their skin. It's a sad life to hate black people when you live in the south suburbs. I'd rather not be so sad and pathetic.

Last edited by urza216; 12-03-2010 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post

What is more interesting is that you mentioned that the most hateful White persons you have been around lived in Black neighborhoods(particularly poor ones). Why is it that I don't find the same pattern with Black kids who grow up the same way?
Because whites are the majority in the country? I think there's a certain frustration that sometimes happens when whites live in an area where they're the minority that doesn't happen with blacks. And btw, I don't really like the terms "black" and "white" because it implies opposites. But I don't really like the terms African American and Caucasian either so whatever.
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:52 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 8,004,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
My impression is of Iowa City is that it's still a pretty laid back, care free city. When I went there summer 2010, everyone parked their cars with the windows rolled up. A neighbor stopped by the house I was staying at and just walked right in because the doors were unlocked.

As for bikes in the yard, I didn't see any during my recent stay in Iowa City. I'm extra sensitive to bike theft because I know how much it sucks. You're not just stealing from someone. You're leaving them stranded somewhere. But when you leave your bike outside a business and lying on the sidewalk unlocked, I can understand the "finders keepers" mindset and how a thief might not even think of it as theft. Is it "theft" when you pick up a quarter someone dropped on the ground? No, of course not. A bike lock isn't just a safety precaution but a way marking your territory too. It establishes that your bike isn't something someone left somewhere but rather, it belongs to whoever owns the bike lock.

When a neighbor just walks right in an unlocked door, this also says something about the lack of the territorial mindset.. We knew she was coming over but that doesn't change the fact that she just walked right in without ringing the doorbell.
I meant "rolled down" not "rolled up". Everyone parked their car in a manner that made their car very easy break into.
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:32 AM
 
55,545 posts, read 49,483,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
When I went to high school, any racial tensions where mostly underneath difference of musical tastes. Not necessarily the case but from my memory, this had a lot to do with it. During assemblies and dances, it was all rap and R&B. No rock, no punk, no nothing. There was no "white music" that our cheerleading squad with only one white girl danced to during assemblies.

We interacted with each other in the classroom but once you walked into the cafeteria, the table-by-table racial segregation was obvious. The few Asian kids at the school usually sat at a white table and the few Hispanics at the school usually sat a black table. I was a punk and sat in the corner with the punks, skaters, goths, emos, ect... You know, basically all the different high school "counter culture" groups that on the TV supposedly don't get along. But these TV shows and movies aren't depicting an approximately 80% black high school. I'm 24 and although I fell out of touch with almost everybody from high school, I'm still friends with one of the kids who sat at my table. He was the black gothic kid who listened to heavy metal. He's still one of my best friends today. We really weren't divided by race, in theory. We were divided by dress attire and music. But very few black kids dressed like us or listened to our music.

I've lived in southern Cook County for most of my life. Since age 18, I've lived a little further south just across the county line in eastern Will County. I always dreamed of moving to the city (Chicago) but I never had the money or means. As I get older, I wonder if I ever will. By the way, I'm 24 and a returning college student.

I was never raised prejudice and my life experiences have never left me jaded. All the kids who bullied me on the playground were black guys. Most of my childhood friends were black and it wasn't till I was a teenager that this really started to change. When I was in 8th grade I got jumped by a group of black guys in downtown Park Forest (that's mostly empty storefronts, BTW). They went to school with me. More recently, I've had groups of black guys try to intimidate me for no particular reason. I just shrug it off. I know this area like the back of my hand and I'm no outsider. I don't fall into that bullsh*t of hating someone for the color of their skin. It's a sad life to hate black people when you live in the south suburbs. I'd rather not be so sad and pathetic.

I think the racial tensions in my high school could have been more indicative of some issues that go on in the South. Most of the racial tensions stemmed from a clash of two different cultures, history, and other things in the mix. Kind of interesting that you have two ethnic groups, both of them basically American, born and raised in the USA, mostly likely in Georgia, but not getting along because of major cultural and racial issues, many rooted in the old days. When the Confederate flag got into the mix, things got really bad.
My high school the same issue when it came to lunch time. The Black kids sat at one part of the cafeteria and the White kids sat everywhere else. I basically drifted, basically trying to find where I fit. My high school had a large "redneck" subculture.

Getting beat up bites alot. I think you getting beat up mainly by Black kids is indicative of the demographics you lived around. You were in a mostly Black area, so many of the bullies were also Black. Similar for my situation. I spent middle school and high school in a predominantly White area, so alot of the kids who were beating me up and giving me grief were White.

When I say jaded, what I mean is that I was left a bit cynical. I am a bit jaded because of the culture shock I had and how I had to deal with it. I can't waste time hating anyone because it isn't right or healthy. I can say I won't ever live in Paulding County again. Then again, my experience was different because I am the way I am.

You getting beat up in front of empty storefronts reminds me of when I got mugged. I was also jumped by a few Black men and my stuff was stolen. What happened to us is something few people ever think about when crime happens, especially if it is Black people committing the crime. Black people get affected by it more anyone else. I wasn't raised to hate anyone either. I think that is also part of the reason I don't hate any ethnicity. I would agree that it would be a sad life to hate someone because of their ethnicity or skin color. It was done to me, and for that reason, I don't want to do it to anyone else.
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Old 12-05-2010, 04:11 AM
 
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I recently had to read a book for my criminology class called Gang Leader For A Day. A student from the University of Chicago went into the Robert Taylor housing projects and did his research in a way most sociologists avoid: He went there, did more than just talking with the people. He hung out with some of the people, listened. It wasn't just research from a book. It was going there and observing, talking, hanging out and made it an ongoing process. He found out alot about living in the Robert Taylor homes. One thing he found out is that nothing is as it seems. Everything is complicated. Yes, there were gangs, and yes, there were issues. The thing it, is also showed people who were down to earth, nice people, who aren't criminals. There are not the people who get the attention. It is the criminals who get the attention. I also never expected to find a gang member with a college education, who worked as a salesman. It turns out, there was a gang leader with a college degree. Why was he in a gang? According to him, he was finding that White people with less education than him got promoted faster than him, and quit his job. He later went into gang life. I also found in reading this book than many people will find ways to make money, even if its illegal, and many of persons coming up with money in "illegitimate" ways were simply people trying to survive. I also found out that some people in the projects actually worked, but never reported their wages for fear of losing their tenancy. Chicago isn't exactly the cheapest place to live, and the projects are public housing, so I can understand why some people would do that. Robert Taylor homes was basically set up to be away from everyone. It was in Chicago proper, but located in relative isolation. Visible from Dan Ryan Expressway, but sort of "over there" in isolation.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 8,004,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I recently had to read a book for my criminology class called Gang Leader For A Day. A student from the University of Chicago went into the Robert Taylor housing projects and did his research in a way most sociologists avoid: He went there, did more than just talking with the people. He hung out with some of the people, listened. It wasn't just research from a book. It was going there and observing, talking, hanging out and made it an ongoing process. He found out alot about living in the Robert Taylor homes. One thing he found out is that nothing is as it seems. Everything is complicated. Yes, there were gangs, and yes, there were issues. The thing it, is also showed people who were down to earth, nice people, who aren't criminals. There are not the people who get the attention. It is the criminals who get the attention. I also never expected to find a gang member with a college education, who worked as a salesman. It turns out, there was a gang leader with a college degree. Why was he in a gang? According to him, he was finding that White people with less education than him got promoted faster than him, and quit his job. He later went into gang life. I also found in reading this book than many people will find ways to make money, even if its illegal, and many of persons coming up with money in "illegitimate" ways were simply people trying to survive. I also found out that some people in the projects actually worked, but never reported their wages for fear of losing their tenancy. Chicago isn't exactly the cheapest place to live, and the projects are public housing, so I can understand why some people would do that. Robert Taylor homes was basically set up to be away from everyone. It was in Chicago proper, but located in relative isolation. Visible from Dan Ryan Expressway, but sort of "over there" in isolation.
Yeah, I read about that case study in the book Freakonomics - Although not with the same detail that you read about it.
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