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Old 10-14-2012, 08:33 AM
 
1,922 posts, read 1,574,820 times
Reputation: 798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
No one will have a problem with him being an engineer. What I was talking about was this. It was mentioned that often, some residents can't tell criminals who happened to be Black from African refugees. If that is so, then the same could be said in terms of my father being mistaken that way. Engineers are not causing the problem. My father never represented that element. However, there might be people who mistaken him for some of the criminals who happen to be Black, especially because he is Black. What I've learned is that much of how you're perceived is about how you look.

Thank for the vote of confidence. With the way things are, I'm thinking I should go to grad school. I was offered a chance to go to Iowa State many years ago as a freshman. Money was a big issue, as I would have to deal with out of state tuition. However, I think I'm willing to put up with it this time.
I was going to say no one, but there are hardcore racists that have a problem with everything.

I was sort of joking when I wrote engineers not being the problem. I work with engineers.

Why would anyone see a professional black man as a threat?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:51 AM
 
78 posts, read 162,680 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_IA View Post
Some people just refuse to acknowledge facts if it involves minorities.

I'm guessing you wouldn't want to live around a bunch of skinhead white supremacists thugs either. You've just had enough of violent crime, and want a safe town to live in. Right?
THANK YOU.


Of course that is what this is about. Listen, I am an Iowan; born, raised there. I know Iowans to be welcoming people who since the 1970's have welcomed many refugees of war torn countries such as Vietnam and Cambodia and then many from Bosnia and Rwanda in the '90's. So when I see that the DSM Register runs an op-ed about problems from Chicago and knowing the level of violence that comes from that town; add that to what I have experienced in LA and you get someone with their guard up!
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:54 AM
 
78 posts, read 162,680 times
Reputation: 101
I simply do not want to exchange one set of problems here for something like it over there. My family has been in danger here; I want to go where they will be safe. I'm bringing along my 84 year old Mother in law for heaven's sake. If Chicago style gang banging is going on in CR, then please, tell me now.

Thanks.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:24 PM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,453,387 times
Reputation: 11200
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasketKitten View Post
THANK YOU.


Of course that is what this is about. Listen, I am an Iowan; born, raised there. I know Iowans to be welcoming people who since the 1970's have welcomed many refugees of war torn countries such as Vietnam and Cambodia and then many from Bosnia and Rwanda in the '90's. So when I see that the DSM Register runs an op-ed about problems from Chicago and knowing the level of violence that comes from that town; add that to what I have experienced in LA and you get someone with their guard up!
I think that's where things are getting mixed up. This isn't a minority issue at heart, it's an issue of a group of people with a very inner city culture exposed to a lot of violence moving to an area where they are very much on the outside of the established culture. The issues could be caused by groups who happen to be disproportionately made up of left handed people or germans or blacks or blonds. Once that group happens to take on a specific race though everything turns into RACISM when you try to have the debate and you're never allowed to actually break through and talk about the actual problems. It's all smothered by the race race race fact. I mean everyone talking has specifically pointed out that of course no one is saying all black people who are moving to IC or people in IC are dangerous or came from the inner city with bad intentions. It's certainly not true, but it will always come up from someone or another.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:32 PM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,453,387 times
Reputation: 11200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsy84 View Post
You mentioned murder in one of your posts. I don't have any stats at hand, but you do realize that white people have been involved in more than one murder over the years, but we don't look at those sort of events and extrapolate that to the rest of the white community. There's Curtis Fry, Sueppel(who murdered 5 people), Michelle Kehoe, and David Christian that come to mind.

Regarding your mom teaching at Roosevelt, I think the Roosevelt is a great example of how the school district really failed the community at large..I might write a longer post about that.

I won't disagree with you that a student's home life isn't important. I'll guess that I'm older than you, and I think one difference is that we simply talk about these issues more than we once did. I think they also become a scapegoat of sorts to explain why kids aren't doing better in school. If my kid sits to someone who has a bad home life that isn't an excuse for the education professionals to act at times in a very marginal way. When I actually had kids in a school that had a higher minority school I began to see the problems weren't all about kids coming from a bad home life...sometimes the schools weren't doing what they needed to do either.
1) I was stating that if violent crime like murder happened years ago it was huge news for months. I wasn't saying the murders are by blacks or any specific race. Just that violent crime itself in Iowa City is very new. Especially random violent crime like robberies, etc. One thing about all those murders except Fry is that they were basically domestic, which after living in Chicago for awhile I realize has a MUCH different impact on people than the random gang/drug and robbery violence I hear about in Chicago. The stuff that happen to Joe Smo walking home.

2) I'd actually love to hear input on Roosevelt.

3) I'm guessing you're not a teacher if you state that having very disruptive kids and kids who have never been taught any sort of respect/responsibility/goodwill in their homelife won't absolutely destroy the teaching environment in a classroom. When you get a ton of kids who unfortuantely grew up with those values in their homelife coming into your school it's very hard to turn that tide and put forth the huge amount of help for those kids (who are still getting crap help from home) while still keeping up the standards of the rest of the children. My friend/roommate learned that in a very devestating way during 5 years in Chicago.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:38 AM
 
1,671 posts, read 2,405,217 times
Reputation: 2951
[quote=chicago60614;26556744] 3) i'm guessing you're not a teacher if you state that having very disruptive kids and kids who have never been taught any sort of respect/responsibility/goodwill in their homelife won't absolutely destroy the teaching environment in a classroom. When you get a ton of kids who unfortuantely grew up with those values in their homelife coming into your school it's very hard to turn that tide and put forth the huge amount of help for those kids (who are still getting crap help from home) while still keeping up the standards of the rest of the children. My friend/roommate learned that in a very devestating way during 5 years in chicago.

This is my daughter's experience as a teacher in the inner Kansas City schools. A large majority of the parents of the children are gang members. The majority of parents do not show up for teacher conferences. It has everything to do with the homelife. Teachers can try their best, but if the children's homelife is so disruptive (many kids don't even have parents that want them; the kids live with cousins or friends of friends). It is heartbreaking, and an overwhelming and extremely complex problem.

Last edited by smpliving; 10-18-2012 at 04:51 AM..
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:41 AM
 
56,063 posts, read 49,642,562 times
Reputation: 17320
Quote:
Why would anyone see a professional black man as a threat?
It isn't a question of seeing a professional Black man as a threat. It is a question of "will a professional Black man be mistaken for a gang member if he is just wearing casual clothes"?
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:32 AM
 
708 posts, read 788,517 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
1) I was stating that if violent crime like murder happened years ago it was huge news for months. I wasn't saying the murders are by blacks or any specific race. Just that violent crime itself in Iowa City is very new. Especially random violent crime like robberies, etc. One thing about all those murders except Fry is that they were basically domestic, which after living in Chicago for awhile I realize has a MUCH different impact on people than the random gang/drug and robbery violence I hear about in Chicago. The stuff that happen to Joe Smo walking home.

2) I'd actually love to hear input on Roosevelt.

3) I'm guessing you're not a teacher if you state that having very disruptive kids and kids who have never been taught any sort of respect/responsibility/goodwill in their homelife won't absolutely destroy the teaching environment in a classroom. When you get a ton of kids who unfortuantely grew up with those values in their homelife coming into your school it's very hard to turn that tide and put forth the huge amount of help for those kids (who are still getting crap help from home) while still keeping up the standards of the rest of the children. My friend/roommate learned that in a very devestating way during 5 years in Chicago.
1) Well yes, they were domestic...but it does prove a point that there is considerable dysfunction going on in homes of all demographics. I'm not sure how you are describing violent crime. I haven't lived in IC continuously but I do know that crimes like sexual assault against women, non-sexual assault, and things that we'd consider stalking today were often underinvestigated, when I lived here before. I think if we only rely on the newspaper, we aren't getting a true picture. Coralville and North Liberty don't even have their police blotters online. For example, I was called to jury duty in the past year. I didn't get selected, but the crime involved a Caucasian person, with charges of sexual assault and home invasion. This story received almost no news coverage.....the actual trial itself was not covered at all.

2)Roosevelt....I think at some point that IC will have to look at closing older schools. I just think the whole process that Roosevelt ended up being the school to be targeted left an incredibly bad taste in everyone's mouth, since it had one of the poorer/more diverse demographics of the older schools. Where was the school board/administration when they should have been paying attention to the maintenance needs of the school? Not sure if you were aware of this or not, but one of the issues that came out of the Roosevelt fiascos is that the attendance areas were gerrymandered in such a way that was unfavorable to kids from disadvantaged backgrounds.

So now Roosevelt has closed, and the Borlaug school has opened. Most of the Roosevelt families were led to believe they could attend Borlaug...this ended up to be untrue. In a bit of irony, play equipment purchased by the Roosevelt PTO was moved to Borlaug....with no input from the community.

I think Roosevelt is just an example how the district historically doesn't give equal weight to all groups.

3)I'm not a teacher. I'm assuming you aren't either. I do know what I see with my own eyes. Do I think some of the "Chicago" families come from dysfunctional backgrounds...yes I do. It bothers me though how quick we are to assume that a kid who doesn't perform well in school, it is all because of the background of the parents....when we aren't doing that with kids from other backgrounds. I can say with my youngest kid, who has been the target of physical aggression several times from kids who have similar backgrounds to ours, that the school seems very slow to act...when in other cases if they were a Chicago kid...they'd be hauled off to a behavior disorder classroom fairly quickly. It is no wonder that at some point this population of kids becomes pretty jaded.
I can tell you that before I had kids in school my attitude was much different. Then I had kids in school, and could see first hand the mismanagement and apathy by the people who manage the schools, and it really changed my mind.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:43 AM
 
708 posts, read 788,517 times
Reputation: 509
One point for iagal and chicago.....there is two parts to the school equation...what the school provides, and the second one is the student. What the student brings to the table is a mix of their own innate abilities, prior learning experiences and what they've been taught at home.

I think one point that perhaps I haven't made very well is that schools really aren't holding up their end of the equation very well. Do I think disruptive kids(even from Chicago) can get in the way of a good education...sometimes, but from what I've seen at my kids' school, seen with their friends, seen with activities I've helped at...this factor is greatly exaggerated while the role of the school is greatly minimized.

Now back to the school part of the equation. If the school is making a good faith effort to provide a decent curriculum, the school is well run, teachers are engaged, and school officials are willing to listen to parent concerns, then yes, the school is doing all they can.

These are pretty poor metaphors, but somewhat analagous to some of the experiences my oldest child had in the early elementary grades. Suppose you take your child to piano class. You learn that your child's piano teacher doesn't believe in practice, and won't tell you what your child can do improve at home. Later you find out the piano teacher "doesn't believe" in teaching the C key, or proper fingering technique. She also doesn't "believe" in giving feedback, so that the student can correct her errors. Now you'd find that fairly ridiculous, wouldn't you. But yet there are teachers with just these sorts of philosophies regarding teaching math, reading and writing, actively teaching in the school system.

Are the teachers entirely to blame for some of this wackiness...not entirely, because this might be what they learned in ed school or might be reinforced by a wacky curriculum. But a student who isn't the child of a parent who doesn't recognize the deficits is at a much greater disadvantage.

My other point was is that as the percentage of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds has increased the ICCSD hasn't always been attentive to their needs. Not every kid from a disadvantaged background is disrespectful. They might not have a parent at home trying to coach them at an early age to ace the ACT eventually...but really isn't that why we send our kids to school?
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
5,309 posts, read 8,413,562 times
Reputation: 11547
I somtimes think they try to move away from each other.
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