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Old 09-05-2010, 11:01 PM
 
55,282 posts, read 49,411,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
All of your posts on this thread raise some good points.
Thanks. I ask such questions and bring things up because I wanted to get a different kind of dialogue on this forum. I figured if the topic was discussed from another angle, maybe some more things would come out. One thing I am finding is that some people are avoiding questions I might want to pose.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:03 PM
 
60 posts, read 194,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Something else I am thinking about. I am sure there are some bad apples living in public housing. What about the persons who live in public housing/on welfare who don't cause problems?
I'm not sure that I understand your question. "What about the people who milk the system that aren't committing crimes?"
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:06 PM
 
55,282 posts, read 49,411,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thtapler View Post
I'm not sure that I understand your question. "What about the people who milk the system that aren't committing crimes?"
Many people are on public housing or welfare because they need it. Besides, most people who get on welfare don't stay on welfare longer than a year. I understand what welfare is for. I have never been on welfare. At the same time, things can happen. A time might come when one might need welfare. You never know. Think about this. White supremacist Tom Metzger used to complain about Black people being on welfare. What happened to him? A few people from his association murdered an Ethiopian college student in Portland,OR. The White Aryan Resistance was sued. Tom Metzger had no money. What did he do? He went in line the next day to get food stamps.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:12 PM
 
60 posts, read 194,042 times
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Ok, and where do these programs get their money?

*just saw your edit: While I see the hypocrisy in your example, however anomalous it may be, it would only be truly hypocritical if he moved to Iowa to wring the system for more than he could get in Portland.

Last edited by thtapler; 09-05-2010 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,779,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
The fact still stands, if people are talking about the people coming to Iowa to get on welfare, then why aren't there more African-Americans moving to Iowa who don't want to be on welfare?

Your "if...then...." query doesn't really make sense. I don't see the connection between AA's moving here to get on the welfare and AA's coming here for other reasons. They seem kind of independent of each other, don't you think?

But to answer half of your question, why aren't black folks moving to Iowa for reasons other than welfare - I don't know. I'd speculate that it's because the culture and populace of Iowa is overwhelmingly white and that's not the case for the cities you listed in an earlier post. Whether you agree with it or not, people tend to feel more comfortable around people similar to themselves. Also blacks are largely urban dwellers and Iowa isn't really seen as that kind of place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
You never know. Think about this. White supremacist Tom Metzger used to complain about Black people being on welfare. What happened to him? A few people from his association murdered an Ethiopian college student in Portland,OR. The White Aryan Resistance was sued. Tom Metzger had no money. What did he do? He went in line the next day to get food stamps.
I'm familiar with Tom Metzger and his work. The ADL (or some other group like that) raked him across the coals over that incident and basically ruined him financially for life - there's absolutely no way he would be able to claw his way out of that one. I believe he had a choice between going on welfare or working and having his wages garnished to pay off millions of dollars.
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
Quote:
Your "if...then...." query doesn't really make sense. I don't see the connection between AA's moving here to get on the welfare and AA's coming here for other reasons. They seem kind of independent of each other, don't you think?


Quote:
But to answer half of your question, why aren't black folks moving to Iowa for reasons other than welfare - I don't know. I'd speculate that it's because the culture and populace of Iowa is overwhelmingly white and that's not the case for the cities you listed in an earlier post. Whether you agree with it or not, people tend to feel more comfortable around people similar to themselves. Also blacks are largely urban dwellers and Iowa isn't really seen as that kind of place.



I'm familiar with Tom Metzger and his work. The ADL (or some other group like that) raked him across the coals over that incident and basically ruined him financially for life - there's absolutely no way he would be able to claw his way out of that one. I believe he had a choice between going on welfare or working and having his wages garnished to pay off millions of dollars.
Independent, but of a certain correlation. Many places where middle class and professional African-Americans are moving to, the proportion of African-Americans moving there for welfare is much smaller. Iowa is on the other end of the spectrum. Markedly fewer professional/middle-upper class African-Americans are moving to Iowa and there are a higher proportion of African-Americans moving from the inner city. Many are moving there for welfare benefits/cheaper housing. With alot of mention of African-Americans going to Iowa for welfare, there might be cases of African-Americans who move to Iowa from Chicago(or anywhere else) and some people might assume they are there for welfare, even if they are not on welfare or looking for it. My theory might be if more professional/middle-upper class African-Americans move to Iowa, maybe no one would be able to say that. The thing is, most African-Americans who are middle class and who are professionals aren't moving there.
And by the way, Des Moines is a city. It is the state's largest.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
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Quote:
With alot of mention of African-Americans going to Iowa for welfare, there might be cases of African-Americans who move to Iowa from Chicago(or anywhere else) and some people might assume they are there for welfare, even if they are not on welfare or looking for it.
There are typically context clues one can use. I have a feeling most people can differentiate between the ghetto/welfare class and middle class blacks. I'm not even sure how this would even come into play. There might be people who think that within their heads, but no one is going to say "Oh, he must be here for the welfare" if they meet a new black person at work or buying the house down the block.

Quote:
My theory might be if more professional/middle-upper class African-Americans move to Iowa, maybe no one would be able to say that. The thing is, most African-Americans who are middle class and who are professionals aren't moving there.
The thing is, no matter how many middle class AA's move to Iowa the fact still stands that there are many coming from the Chicago area solely for better welfare benefits. Would a sizable, functional AA middle class effect people's opinions on black people in general in Iowa? Perhaps.

Quote:
And by the way, Des Moines is a city. It is the state's largest.
look at my location. I'm certainly familiar with Des Moines. Even though it is "a city" and the state's largest, it doesn't have the national reputation of being a major urban area. People are surprised to know we have buildings over ten floors here.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:56 PM
 
55,282 posts, read 49,411,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
There are typically context clues one can use. I have a feeling most people can differentiate between the ghetto/welfare class and middle class blacks. I'm not even sure how this would even come into play. There might be people who think that within their heads, but no one is going to say "Oh, he must be here for the welfare" if they meet a new black person at work or buying the house down the block.

The thing is, no matter how many middle class AA's move to Iowa the fact still stands that there are many coming from the Chicago area solely for better welfare benefits. Would a sizable, functional AA middle class effect people's opinions on black people in general in Iowa? Perhaps.

look at my location. I'm certainly familiar with Des Moines. Even though it is "a city" and the state's largest, it doesn't have the national reputation of being a major urban area. People are surprised to know we have buildings over ten floors here.
Maybe it's because I don't think the same way as you, but I never really look at those persons on welfare in a bad way. I am not on welfare, nor has anyone in my family been on welfare. At the same time, I never automatically view those persons as bad. I don't know that person's situation. Some people might even use it to get back on their feet. And it is also like I mentioned before. Most people only stay on welfare for a year. Furthermore, most people who are on welfare are not Black. The thing though, is that I also have concerns for the professional/middle class African-Americans who might get looked at negatively. Would a larger middle-class African-American population affect the opinions of others? Well, it might , it might not. What also strikes my curiosity is this: What will the African-Americans who aren't doing things that are considered negative do? This is what I am trying to say. Someone else might be doing something, but I am not. Chances are, I might get judged for it, and it happens. What do I do? Where do I fall in on any of this?
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 8,001,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Tom Metzger used to complain about Black people being on welfare. What happened to him? A few people from his association murdered an Ethiopian college student in Portland,OR. The White Aryan Resistance was sued. Tom Metzger had no money. What did he do? He went in line the next day to get food stamps.
You know what's also ironic? Before conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh's had the money he has today, he collected unemployment. This is the same man who said "The poor in the this country are the biggest piglets at the mother pig and her nipples." And yes, he collected unemployment.

As Iowans are talking down on social services in this thread, calling it "milking the system," there's another thread called //www.city-data.com/forum/iowa/...ral-state.html. I think the clear answer is: Umm.. No.

Last edited by urza216; 09-06-2010 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:17 PM
 
55,282 posts, read 49,411,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
You know what's also ironic? Before conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh's had the money he has today, he collected unemployment.

As Iowans are talking down on social services in this thread, calling it "milking the system," there's another thread called //www.city-data.com/forum/iowa/...ral-state.html. I think the clear answer is "Umm.. No".
Ironic, and hypocritical of Rush Limbaugh. I don't listen to Limbaugh.

There are those out there who would live thinking nothing bad could ever happen. In that, it would make talking down on the social services. Many who use those services get demonized for it.

As a professor once told me "When people in the rural areas starve, they die. When people in urban areas starve, they riot". According to him, that is why welfare exists, to keep order. I say it is suppose to be a safety net, just in case. I think this is part of why I don't talk badly about those who are on welfare.
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