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Old 09-08-2010, 10:18 AM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,410,640 times
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Most middle class/upper class AA's aren't going to move to Iowa because they have the freedom to choose where to live - and culturally/economically Iowa just isn't at the top of where AA's would want to move to in most cases. It just is what it is. They'd be more likely to go to an area with an already established middle class AA population. Somewhere with more jobs, somewhere warmer.

Inner city AA's from Chicago are coming because they can get handouts pretty easy. Period. They don't really care where they're going, they just need the money and housing. My roommate taught on the west side of Chicago for 5 years, and then moved to the Southeast side of Iowa City when she "went back home". She lives near all those neighborhoods with the influx. She sees it ever day, and she talks with the people and teaches their children at Wood. She said they don't care where they are, they don't leave the southeast side for the most part. They're just their existing. Many of them don't even know a THING about Iowa City. They don't even know that there's a university. Many couldn't possibly care less about Iowa City. It's just a house they're living in as they run around with their neighbors and scrape together money.

Now of COURSE it's not all the AA's who have moved, but it's a large enough % to create the sterotype you now see in Iowa City with the southeast side and the AA's in that area.

It's also different because I knew people on welfare in Iowa City in the 1980's and 1990's, and most people were certainly not proud or happy about it. They were taking the help as they got their lives together. As it's suppose to be. Fast forward to me moving to Chicago, and I noticed that a LOT...a LOT of the people on welfare in the city grew up on walfare, their mothers were on welfare, and their grandmothers were on walfare. They didn't see welfare as a handout or as help to get on their feet. Welfare was their right as a person. They had no plans on getting off welfare, and they wanted as much as they could get. They get personally and truely offended if anyone says anything about taking THEIR welfare away. THEIR section 8 housing. "How do you expect me to feed my babies!!!" "I've lived in this apartment my whole life". There's a large and solid disconnect between that section of society and mainstream America. In the end you can hardly blame the current population living like that. It's honestly all they've ever known, and they have a terrible background in their education. You would have to remake the entire thought process of a few generations. Their government handouts were EARNED. It's their GOD GIVEN RIGHT. It's their payback for being outcasts of society.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:35 PM
 
55,418 posts, read 49,449,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Most middle class/upper class AA's aren't going to move to Iowa because they have the freedom to choose where to live - and culturally/economically Iowa just isn't at the top of where AA's would want to move to in most cases. It just is what it is. They'd be more likely to go to an area with an already established middle class AA population. Somewhere with more jobs, somewhere warmer.

Inner city AA's from Chicago are coming because they can get handouts pretty easy. Period. They don't really care where they're going, they just need the money and housing. My roommate taught on the west side of Chicago for 5 years, and then moved to the Southeast side of Iowa City when she "went back home". She lives near all those neighborhoods with the influx. She sees it ever day, and she talks with the people and teaches their children at Wood. She said they don't care where they are, they don't leave the southeast side for the most part. They're just their existing. Many of them don't even know a THING about Iowa City. They don't even know that there's a university. Many couldn't possibly care less about Iowa City. It's just a house they're living in as they run around with their neighbors and scrape together money.

Now of COURSE it's not all the AA's who have moved, but it's a large enough % to create the sterotype you now see in Iowa City with the southeast side and the AA's in that area.

It's also different because I knew people on welfare in Iowa City in the 1980's and 1990's, and most people were certainly not proud or happy about it. They were taking the help as they got their lives together. As it's suppose to be. Fast forward to me moving to Chicago, and I noticed that a LOT...a LOT of the people on welfare in the city grew up on walfare, their mothers were on welfare, and their grandmothers were on walfare. They didn't see welfare as a handout or as help to get on their feet. Welfare was their right as a person. They had no plans on getting off welfare, and they wanted as much as they could get. They get personally and truely offended if anyone says anything about taking THEIR welfare away. THEIR section 8 housing. "How do you expect me to feed my babies!!!" "I've lived in this apartment my whole life". There's a large and solid disconnect between that section of society and mainstream America. In the end you can hardly blame the current population living like that. It's honestly all they've ever known, and they have a terrible background in their education. You would have to remake the entire thought process of a few generations. Their government handouts were EARNED. It's their GOD GIVEN RIGHT. It's their payback for being outcasts of society.
Now it doesn't surprise me so much that many middle/upper class African-Americans aren't moving to Iowa. I worry about the middle-class African-American population that does live in Iowa because they might be subjected to getting stereotyped as well. One thing I have learned over the years is this: You don't have to fit any kind of stereotype to be stereotyped against.

My father is the type of person who believes that you go wherever you can go to survive. He tried to get an engineering job in Iowa many years back. He didn't get picked for the job. It would have been interesting for me to have lived in Iowa in my teenage years had he gotten the job. He was willing to got to Iowa for work. When you boil down to it, it might have been many things that would have attracted my father there.
1) Much safer than where we live now........in Georgia. Atlanta has been one of the murder capitals of the nation for years.
2) Fewer allergy issues for me and my father(I have severe allergies and so does he. I think Georgia's mild winters keep the plants from being fully killed, therefore, pollen comes back in the early spring with a vengeance.)
3) Not in the South(my father is a northerner, born and raised, and I think living in the South and some of his experiences (as well as mine) left a bad taste in his mouth).
4) Politically more liberal, or at least more pragmatic than Georgia, and more humane than Georgia, and less corrupt.
5) Possibly lower cost of living than Georgia.

The drawback for him might have been not as large of an African-American community as Georgia. I think that would have been his drawback. That withstanding, he would have gone to Iowa if he was given the job. I was more that happy to leave too. The idea of living in a place where you got alot of snow in the winter appealed to me.

It is interesting that you mention that many African-Americans who have moved to Iowa City know nothing about the city. It worked the same way for my father. My family was living in one of Atlanta's inner ring suburbs, in an apartment complex. My father had concerns about the crime rate. He wanted a place that was quiet, and where his family could have their own home with a yard and some space. He wanted it cheap as well. He got a house 45 minutes away, in a place he knew nothing about. Within one year, I had so many problems adjusting to where I was living. Basically, it was a pickup truck and Confederate flag kind of environment. Today I no longer live there. My father still has his house there. He plans on leaving too. Maybe it is just a survival mentality. Some people move to where they move to for survival.

You do have a point about welfare. Some people live off of it because it is all they know. For the most part, welfare is temporary for many. My theory about it is this. There is a mentality of the Horatio Alger narrative. For persons who have that mentality, many are ashamed to be on welfare. For those who believe it is crap, welfare isn't view as something to be ashamed of, but rather, survival.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:59 PM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,410,640 times
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^ your first paragraph is very true - especially in Chicago. Here the social issues and crime in the city are very segregated based on race. The city is 36% White/Asian, 35% Black and 29% Hispanic.

The murders are around 3% White/Asian, 79% Black and 18% Hispanic. Violent crime in general follows that trend.

As a result there's a HUGE stereotype in Chicago about Black people = crime/scaryness. Of course it's 15% of the black population that's in all the gangs and creating all the issues. Unfortunately for the other 85%, including a lot of my friends, they're in the group that immediately gets nervous looks and suspision about them just because they're black. I've talked with a lot of my black friends, and although it's not something they like to talk about, especially to some white boy, there's a ton of resentment, anger and especially frustration at that portion of the black community that goes to war against itself on the streets every day.

Unfortunately it's been going on so long there's also a lot of complete indifference. Non-blacks separate themselves from the problem because it's "not my issue" and they don't live in or deal with any of the violent neighborhoods. Black people try to stay away from the problems, stay quiet and ask for help for their communities. Unfortunately when the problem is respect and family values starting from birth - it's not like a person can build a nice school and expect everything to just turn out wonderful and be producing fine upstanding citizens. If you're in an environment from day 1 where your mother doesn't care about a job, people around you are on drugs, everyone complains about the system, people steal, there's no hope, etc..... you're already starting off on a VERY wrong foot. My roommate did 5th grade in that environment for 5 years. She learned quick that in many cases she was just hopeless to change most of the kids. Even by 10 or 11 years old they were just so far behind and "gone". Couldn't spell their names, had extreme rage issues, stole everything that wasn't nailed down. I mean obviously this was the worst of the worst of Chicago - which is about the worst in the country. A vast majority of black people, and really this is just an inner city socioeconomic issue more than anything, are perfectly fine people just like everyone else in America. It's just a rotten stereotype that many people are forced to deal with because of a long history of how we found outselves in this position.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:49 PM
 
55,418 posts, read 49,449,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
^ your first paragraph is very true - especially in Chicago. Here the social issues and crime in the city are very segregated based on race. The city is 36% White/Asian, 35% Black and 29% Hispanic.

The murders are around 3% White/Asian, 79% Black and 18% Hispanic. Violent crime in general follows that trend.

As a result there's a HUGE stereotype in Chicago about Black people = crime/scaryness. Of course it's 15% of the black population that's in all the gangs and creating all the issues. Unfortunately for the other 85%, including a lot of my friends, they're in the group that immediately gets nervous looks and suspision about them just because they're black. I've talked with a lot of my black friends, and although it's not something they like to talk about, especially to some white boy, there's a ton of resentment, anger and especially frustration at that portion of the black community that goes to war against itself on the streets every day.

Unfortunately it's been going on so long there's also a lot of complete indifference. Non-blacks separate themselves from the problem because it's "not my issue" and they don't live in or deal with any of the violent neighborhoods. Black people try to stay away from the problems, stay quiet and ask for help for their communities. Unfortunately when the problem is respect and family values starting from birth - it's not like a person can build a nice school and expect everything to just turn out wonderful and be producing fine upstanding citizens. If you're in an environment from day 1 where your mother doesn't care about a job, people around you are on drugs, everyone complains about the system, people steal, there's no hope, etc..... you're already starting off on a VERY wrong foot. My roommate did 5th grade in that environment for 5 years. She learned quick that in many cases she was just hopeless to change most of the kids. Even by 10 or 11 years old they were just so far behind and "gone". Couldn't spell their names, had extreme rage issues, stole everything that wasn't nailed down. I mean obviously this was the worst of the worst of Chicago - which is about the worst in the country. A vast majority of black people, and really this is just an inner city socioeconomic issue more than anything, are perfectly fine people just like everyone else in America. It's just a rotten stereotype that many people are forced to deal with because of a long history of how we found outselves in this position.
It is a crazy mix of things. On the one hand, there are many criminals in the African-American community. On the other hand, African-Americans as a whole have been hated for as long as the USA has existed. You did make a good point there.
One part of the statistics that few people ever mention in terms of crime among African-Americans is this: Most murders that are committed by African-Americans involve an African-American victim. For this reason, African-American men have the highest rate of murder victimhood in the USA. This is also part of why African-American men between the ages of 15-34 have the highest mortality rate in the USA, with the number one cause being homicide. Alot of people look at the Black men who are committing crimes without looking at the Black men who have been victimized by crime.

Alot of things start at home. My parents always had books at home. I picked up on that message early. If the parents are not doing their job, it hurts the children. That is affecting a faction of the African-American community. When the parents are not doing their job, it does horrible things. This is part of why I say things need to start early. The schools are an important part as well.

I feel that people who aren't Black can say "not my issue" for a reason. I think it is a different narrative. They might face some discrimination, but not in the same way as African-Americans. It isn't always the same stereotypes as the ones African-Americans are faced with. Many African-Americans try to keep away from the problems themselves. This is just my input on what I see. On one hand, most African-Americans do not like what the criminal faction of African-Americans are doing and have done. Most know the harm being done and condemn it and choose not to take part of it. On the other hand, I think that some people feel like they can't just say "we're not one of them". They can't say "this isn't our problem", because even in an indirect way, the African-Americans who aren't doing bad things might get judged for what a small part of the population has done.

My view on how I feel: On the one hand, I want to tell everyone "we're not all like this. Most of us are NOT criminals. We don't like it when people are committing crimes. Don't view the entire ethnicity based on what a small percentage of African-Americans have done". On the other hand I also know the response will vary because African-Americans as a group have been looked down on, stereotyped, and viewed badly for many years.
As I read, it seems as if you understand some of the things I have wanted to say. I rarely talk about this with others because it is something few people want to talk about. You also mentioned it was something many don't want to talk to a White person about. I feel like dialogue between the races is needed.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
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The one BIG mistake that Iowa City has made is to create a potential slum. You do not put all the Section 8 housing in one location, loosen welfare restrictions, then expect problems not to pop up.

The area being discussed was once a very nice middle class area. It is now one giant for sale sign with many signs having "price reduced" on them.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Des Moines
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I don't know if Iowa City really anticipated this or planned for it though. Five years ago, you never heard of the type of issues you hear about now (which are over blown because the city has never had to deal with them before).

Really, what caused this area to become a magnet for a welfare class that could've been prevented? There's only like two apartment complexes that were both built before the influx of very low income people moving in. There's apartment complexes all over the city where this kind of change could realistically happen. What are you supposed to do in a university town, not built apartments? Not allow for the construction of low income housing options in a city of this size? The best case scenario is to have very good management at apartments that do offer Section 8 rentals. Look at a map of this area, there's tennis courts, ponds, new townhouses and new market rate apartments. This isn't indicitive of a declining inner city slum and proves that nobody saw this coming just a few short years ago. Look at the areas attracting similar residents in Iowa in Davenport, Cedar Rapids and Waterloo--these are much older areas with rapidly declining housing stock that would traditionally resemble low income, high crime inner city areas. I find the Iowa City example to be such a unique anomoly. You have a few apartments on the edge of town, virtually a stone's throw from new suburban developments and the cornfields of Johnson County.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:45 AM
 
11,288 posts, read 23,410,640 times
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What happened is Chicago tore down over 100 highrises that at their height housed tens of thousands of low income people - something like 97% black.

Starting about 9 years ago, thousands of people who grew up in the projects and only knew the projects were suddenly thrown up in the air to find a new place to live. There is plenty of section 8 housing in the Chicago area - but not when you suddenly have THOUSANDS of new people looking all at once. As a result many left to other midwestern cities to increase their chances of finding open housing. AKA - Lakeside Apartments, etc. on the southeast side of Iowa City. People moved, told their friends back home they have decent housing for dirt cheap, plenty of other social services, etc. and people weren't harassing them. So more moved. Unfortunately you have the bottom rung of the community moving in, not a broad variety of AA's. They brought their inner city issues with them, as for most it's all they've known. This of course leads us to the huge disconnet of today with "Iowa City meets the Inner City".

It wasn't an issue before because everyone tended to stay near where they were from originally. It's the Chicago Housing Authority's actions to tear down all projects - which in the end HAD to happen because it was just beyond hope or rationality, that created this previously unheard of migration.

It's an issue here as well. Violent crime has actually gone down 66% since the 1990's in the city. What we're seeing now though is much less crime, but more crime popping up randomly in neighborhoods that were once perfectly fine. It's not a disaster, but has people on edge none-the-less. Before you had urban warfare and unthinkable crime numbers happening in the areas of the projects and broken down neighborhoods - with a majority of the city safe from crime. Now you have all that crime in the projects gone, hence the 66% reduction overall - but ironically random acts of violence and gang issues in areas that had once been deemed very safe.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:39 AM
 
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Dubuque has seen a massive influx of section 8 applicants.

Jasper Hobbs
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 8,002,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
What happened is Chicago tore down over 100 highrises that at their height housed tens of thousands of low income people - something like 97% black.
BULL****! And shame on you for spreading this misinformation.

I read in the Chicago Tribune an article about how the vast majority of CHA residents relocated elsewhere in the city. Yeah, a few headed to the 'burbs but I highly doubt ANY of them went all the way to freakin' Iowa.

Do I really have to re-post all three of my comments from earlier?
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Des Moines
586 posts, read 2,008,743 times
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This isn't some made up conspiracy to flog black people. Whether you choose to believe it or choose to keep your head in the sand, this is a demographic phenomenon that is happening right now. I live in Iowa and have seen it first hand. There's been newspaper stories from Ames to Charles City to Iowa City about this very topic and they interview people from inner city Chicago that relocated to Iowa.

You're just being stubborn if you refuse to acknowledge that this could really be happening.
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