quran and science (Europe, atheist, human)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

They not only do not fear global destruction . . . they would welcome it as Allah's judgment on a corrupt humanity. Unlike rational and sober countries like Russia , etc. for whom Mutually Assured Destruction was a deterrent . . . that simply will not work with the Islamic mindset, period!

In what way does this differ from the Christian (see the pope & condoms) or the Judean mindset (see choosing to commit collective suicide over surrendering to the enemy on the Citadel Massada)?
I mean, don't modern Christians, especially those who believe in the rapture, not have a similar mindset?

Like I mentioned before, in what way does this mutual global destruction differ from the pope telling his followers not to use condoms to combat Aids or any other STDs?
Doesn't modern Christianity (read: the Catholic pope) view the ideal of how a Christian should live (read: live monogamous) more important than saving the actual lives of Christians?
Or are you suggesting that believing that the ideal of monogamy is much more important than an actual human life isn't culturally backwards?
Even when reality keeps proving time and time again that humanity as a race simply isn't monogamous ( and probably never even was).


Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill

Good news! We can all blame the jews for inventing the bomb!

Oh plz, stop implying that I'm an anti-Semite.
Although it is a historical fact that Einstein, a Jew, regretted writing a letter to Roosevelt in which he implored that the US should start with the building of the atomic bomb.
But if Einstein, 1 of the greatest minds of the 20th century, could not have foreseen the damage a WMD would do or how it would change (modern) warfare, who could blame him?

BTW the Nuclear bombs didn't kill nearly as many people as the fire bombing we did proceeding them. Even after the nukes were dropped, Japan wouldnt surrender. It wasn't until Russia started moving into China that they cried uncle.... but that's a different story.

Blaming others for believing that you didn't have a choice is weak.
Even when you believe to be the epitome of rationality.
Heck, the Nazis did so with apologising for starting WWII and their many war crimes with the words 'Wir haben es nicht gewusst' which translates to 'we didn't know (about the Nazi death-camps and the extermination of the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals).

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

In what way does this differ from the Christian (see the pope & condoms) or the Judean mindset (see choosing to commit collective suicide over surrendering to the enemy on the Citadel Massada)?
I mean, don't modern Christians, especially those who believe in the rapture, not have a similar mindset?

Like I mentioned before, in what way does this mutual global destruction differ from the pope telling his followers not to use condoms to combat Aids or any other STDs?
Doesn't modern Christianity (read: the Catholic pope) view the ideal of how a Christian should live (read: live monogamous) more important than saving the actual lives of Christians?
Or are you suggesting that believing that the ideal of monogamy is much more important than an actual human life isn't culturally backwards?
Even when reality keeps proving time and time again that humanity as a race simply isn't monogamous ( and probably never even was).

Hellooooo . . . anybody home in there . . . there is no comparison between upholding monogamy and passively expecting the rapture or whatever other idiocy exists in other religions . . . and seeking the weaponry to initiate global destruction by destroying Israel. You have no sense of scale or import . . . stuck as you are in a false comparison between the barbaric PAST and the only barbaric PRESENT . . . the deen of Islam.

Although it is a historical fact that Einstein, a Jew, regretted writing a letter to Roosevelt in which he implored that the US should start with the building of the atomic bomb.
But if Einstein, 1 of the greatest minds of the 20th century, could not have foreseen the damage a WMD would do or how it would change (modern) warfare, who could blame him?

Blaming others for believing that you didn't have a choice is weak.
Even when you believe to be the epitome of rationality.
Heck, the Nazis did so with apologising for starting WWII and their many war crimes with the words 'Wir haben es nicht gewusst' which translates to 'we didn't know (about the Nazi death-camps and the extermination of the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals).

Do you ever come out of your historical recriminations and blame game to survey the real world AS IT EXISTS TODAY???? This kind of fault finding of the flawed past can NEVER provide the focus and objectivity necessary to solve the CURRENT insane threats to humanity's very survival presented by suicidal religious fanatics and their race to acquire nuclear weapons and other WMDs.

[Boxcar Overkill]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill Oh plz, stop implying that I'm an anti-Semite.

Easy, I was just making a joke, not implying that you are an anti-semite. How would I even know about that?

[Boxcar Overkill]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Blaming others for believing that you didn't have a choice is weak.
Even when you believe to be the epitome of rationality.
Heck, the Nazis did so with apologising for starting WWII and their many war crimes with the words 'Wir haben es nicht gewusst' which translates to 'we didn't know (about the Nazi death-camps and the extermination of the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals).

I don't know what you mean by this gibberish, sorry.

I was only pointing out an interesting historical side note - nuking Japan didn't cause them to surrender.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Hellooooo . . . anybody home in there . . . there is no comparison between upholding monogamy and passively expecting the rapture or whatever other idiocy exists in other religions . . . and seeking the weaponry to initiate global destruction by destroying Israel. You have no sense of scale or import . . . stuck as you are in a false comparison between the barbaric PAST and the only barbaric PRESENT . . . the deen of Islam.

Passively expecting rapture?
What's passive about your America invading Iraq because your president Dubya actually believed God had told him to do so?
I guess only an American would feel completely safe when someone as incompetent as Dubya can become the president of the US of A?

So far the Islam hasen't done anything as backwards that would affect the world on a global scale as inventing and using nuclear WMDs (weapons you can't even use because you aren't the sole possessor anymore so using them anyway will start the beginning of the end of the human race) or telling people not to use condoms because you believe that only monogamy can prevent Aids.
So don't blame the Islam when it is Christianity, or to be more accurate the Western culture, who opened Pandora’s Box by inventing the atom bomb.


Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill

Easy, I was just making a joke, not implying that you are an anti-Semite. How would I even know about that?

Because it apparently is custom for Israeli Jews to call anyone who criticises Israel or the Israeli government an anti-Semite.
Even if it was another Jew who did the criticising.

I was only pointing out an interesting historical side note - nuking Japan didn't cause them to surrender.

So?
Does that make nuking Japan all right?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by MysticPhD Passively expecting rapture?
What's passive about your America invading Iraq because your president Dubya actually believed God had told him to do so?

You have been reading too many wacko websites if you think that it was religious motivation that led to the liberation of Iraq, helping them establish their own constitution and helping them institute free elections . . . while keeping the fanatical Islamic terrorists at bay.

So far the Islam hasen't done anything as backwards that would affect the world on a global scale

Forgotten 9/11 already have you! That single act established the global reach and revealed the extent of the worldwide financial and political support for the Islamic fanatics.

as inventing and using nuclear WMDs (weapons you can't even use because you aren't the sole possessor anymore so using them anyway will start the beginning of the end of the human race) or telling people not to use condoms because you believe that only monogamy can prevent Aids.
So don't blame the Islam when it is Christianity, or to be more accurate the Western culture, who opened Pandora’s Box by inventing the atom bomb.

This is total gibberish and off-topic nonsense . . . but the relevant aspect of this is that the threat of ending the human race you mention is NOT a deterrent for the fanatic Islamic fundamentalists driven by their barbaric religious beliefs! Their intent and tenacious quest to obtain nuclear and other WMDs is the true threat to humanity. (What is your obsession with condoms anyway?)

[Boxcar Overkill]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Boxcar OverkillBecause it apparently is custom for Israeli Jews to call anyone who criticises Israel or the Israeli government an anti-Semite.
Even if it was another Jew who did the criticising.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I'm not Jewish, are you? Was someone called an anti-semite?

Originally Posted by Tricky D

So?
Does that make nuking Japan all right?

I'm okay with the decision to nuke Japan. Am I supposed to feel bad about it or something?

Why do you care so much about nuking Japan? The fire bombings killed a lot more people. Is there some reason you don't like nuclear bombs, but are perfectly okay with conventional bombs?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You have been reading too many wacko websites if you think that it was religious motivation that led to the liberation of Iraq, helping them establish their own constitution and helping them institute free elections . . . while keeping the fanatical Islamic terrorists at bay.

So why did America invade Iraq?
Didn't America originally invade Iraq because they believed that Iraq had WMD?
And didn't it turn out that Iraq didn't have any WMDs?
So America was wrong, yet perpetuated its mistake anyway?
So 1st it was because America believed that Iraq had WMD then it changed the motivation for their invasion to freeing Iraq from Saddam.
But wasn't it the American government itself who helped put Saddam into power to combat the Russians?

Forgotten 9/11 already have you! That single act established the global reach and revealed the extent of the worldwide financial and political support for the Islamic fanatics.

And who created these conditions? Who taught these Islam terrorists how to wage a war against an enemy who has a far greater army and are better armed (read: the Russian army)?
Isn't that the same Americans who put Saddam's Ba'at party into power to combat the Russians?
Back when these same Islam terrorists waged a war against the Russians who had invaded Iraq America called them patriots (or at least brave & heroic), but once they turned to the other invader (the West) they suddenly are terrorists? They suddenly are terrorists because they have bitten the hand that fed them?
Isn't that hypocritical?
I only find it logical that these Islam 'terrorists' combat any foreign army who has invaded Iraq (like Russia), or that they combat any foreign influence who tries to manipulate them for their own ends (like America).

Their intent and tenacious quest to obtain nuclear and other WMDs is the true threat to humanity.

Then the West shouldn't have invented any nuclear WMDs.
Isn't progress a wonderful thing?
Or do you believe that progress is only for a certain people?

(What is your obsession with condoms anyway?)

Because they prevent the going forth and multiply command.
At least that is what I believe the pope believes.
And we all know that the pope and the president of the US of A only act for the good of the entire world and not just for the Christians or Americans.

[Boxcar Overkill]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

But wasn't it the American government itself who helped put Saddam into power to combat the Russians?

No.
There was a cold war then. Saddam studied in the Soviet Union. His officers trained in the Soviet Union. They used Soviet Weapons, (T72 tanks, AK47, etc.) Baath party means socialist party, etc. Iraq was a Soviet client state.

The U.S. provided some aid to him when he fought the Iranians because the iranians had just taken our embassy employees hostage, blew up the Marine Barracks in Beirut, and were spreading terrorism via the Hezzbeloh. So if we could encourage them to attack each other, that was just fine.

But we didn't put Saddam into power. He had a coup. He was the Russians boy.


Actually, your entire understanding of the history there is almost completely wrong, but I'm too lazy to correct you right now, so you'll need to look it up yourself. (Not at a crazy fundamentalist website.)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I'm not Jewish, are you? Was someone called an anti-Semite?

It just is my experience here on CD that it wouldn't be the 1st time people accused me of being anti-Semite, or anti-Christian to the mods.
Or going off topic.
Or derailing a topic.

Is there some reason you don't like nuclear bombs, but are perfectly okay with conventional bombs?

Yes because it is far easier to cause the destruction of the human race with nuclear bombs than conventional bombs.
Hasn't the cold war and the domino principle taught you anything?
I guess that Mystic and I at least agree that nuclear WMDs are a threat to humanity.
The only difference is that I view that everyone can be tricked into being stupid enough to use them ( hence my name Tricky D) while Mystic believes that only a Muslim would fall for it.