Another question for Muslims

[elwill]

Originally Posted by hiker45

Good for Egypt.

From what I read about Iraq, people are setting bombs at Shia gatherings, and they assume Sunnis are doing it.

Why do you think Iraq is having this problem?

Do you think it will gradually settle down?

i don't like to be involved in politics discussion , it's very complex

but i will give you briefly my view which i convinced with

when USA invaded Iraq , the Sunnis fought the U.S. occupation, unlike the Shia who were prepared to cooperate with it. so that the Sunni saw the Shia who took a job as a policeman as not only a member of a different community, but as a traitor to his country.

many events then have led to increase this hostility , for example the allegations of rape by Shiite led Iraqi forces against Sunni women.

from event to event , and from assumption to assumption , all groups are now fighting and chasing away the other from towns, cities and villages across the country.

[hiker45]

Thanks, Elwill. You describe the religious tensions in Iraq very well. It sounds very much like the trouble my European ancestors had dealing with the Protestants and Catholics.

Eventually, they began to identify themselves as members of nations like France and England, so there was less need to fight over religion. However, then they fought each other because they were different nations. We humans always need a reason to fight, don't we?

A few years I talked with a person studying the Indian (or Native American) civilizations in North America before the Europeans came in. The Indians in what is now Mexico and the southwest U.S. were very advanced. I asked what he learned from his observations and he said, "The trouble caused by religion."

We could have told him that before he even started his studies.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by hiker45

Thanks, Elwill. You describe the religious tensions in Iraq very well. It sounds very much like the trouble my European ancestors had dealing with the Protestants and Catholics.

Eventually, they began to identify themselves as members of nations like France and England, so there was less need to fight over religion. However, then they fought each other because they were different nations. We humans always need a reason to fight, don't we?

i agree

A few years I talked with a person studying the Indian (or Native American) civilizations in North America before the Europeans came in. The Indians in what is now Mexico and the southwest U.S. were very advanced. I asked what he learned from his observations and he said, "The trouble caused by religion."

We could have told him that before he even started his studies.

as you said , trouble will happen with or without the relegion , it was always happens because of self desire of bad people , such people can use athiesm as a tool to get thier target as they used relegion as a tool to get it


were world war 1 and 2 casued of relegions ?
were the violence between black and white have any relation with relegion
is the violence and individual crimes caused of relegion ?
think about the last question in large scale , you will find out that trouble exist with and without a relegion

relegion affects positively in many people in the world , if relegion not exist at all may be the trouble will be worse

anyway , i can't deny that extremists of relegions made trouble in the world
in the fact extremist of any field ( not only relegions) can cause trouble in the world

[squall-lionheart]

Marz123

Maybe you should Google search their names, and find out more about them?

*I know who they are but i am saying they only represent them selfs .. muslims only take what have been proven by general Muslims scholars not 1 or 2 or even 10 of them .
It has to be Consensus of the scholars for us to Accept .

Now when are you going to answer my question, what Hadiths do you believe to be authentic?

*Any thing you want my friend .

I was actually asking Squall-lionheart for his response.
But ok let's quote from the Quran. Verse 4:34 appears to sanction wife-beating, according to most generally accepted translations and intrepretations of the verse.

*As elwill reply :
Wife beating is not allowed in Islam in any case!
Is beating women allowed in Islam? « Ahmed Ismail
But if you dont want to know the truth then its up to you .

You can say what you want, but that doesn't change the fact that most interpretations by trusted scholars seem to intrepret that the verse sanctions "wife-beating".

*Yah .. as i thought .. you are sticking with your opinion no matter what

Verse 5:33 appears to sanction some other nasty stuff against people who fight "Allah".
Murder, cutting off hands etc.. is all sanctioned in the Quran.

*False ... could you be more specific please

Minnesota Spring

If you are secure in your faith with God and in your religion, why should it matter how many people on Earth share your faith? Do you need the numbers of converts to your religion to be secure that yours is the right faith or do you know in your heart that you are doing the will of God/Allah.

*One of the members tried to make Islam looks so bad especially to women there for i said if its that bad then why do a lot of people converting to Isalm now world wide .
Thats it .

hiker45

Maybe many American Muslims are different from Muslims in other parts of the world.
Maybe the Muslims in America are less dogmatic than the ones overseas because they don't see people from other faiths as threats.

*Not only in America but also in alot of Muslim contries like Egypt , UAE , Morocco , Tunisia , Turkey , Jordan etc .. we have proplems in a few Isalmic areas & it all because of misunderstanding of islam .

Marz123

Let's talk about Muhammed now. According to Hadith Sahih Muslim 3371, Muhammed allowed his followers to rape their female slaves. Most Muslims believe that Sahih is authentic.
Prove me wrong.

*No need to ... you are the one who said rape not us !!!
So u r the one who need to prove that this word exist in Sahih Muslim 3371 .
Let us see the text

[hiker45]

Originally Posted by elwill

relegion affects positively in many people in the world , if relegion not exist at all may be the trouble will be worse

Elwill, I totally agree.

I have many friends who are very religious and religion seems to have really improved their lives. It is unfortunate some people use it to separate us.

You migh enjoy the book "Jews, God, and History" written by Max Dimont.

I am not Jewish and I didn't really know any Jews until I finished college and began working with some Jewish people. This book, of course, tells about Jewish history, but it tells about that history as it relates to European and Middle Eastern history. It gave me a better understanding of my European culture and it may give you insights into your culture as well. The writer is not at all critical of Muslim culture - at least not that I could detect.