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I am certain you also find many of our beliefs to be equally or more scary. Fear is often a prelude to unjustified hatred. Perhaps if we can understand each others fears, there would be less fear and less hatred.
Yep that would be the very first major holy site of another religion that Islam hijacked and claimed as their own. The thing sits right on top of the platform that Herod the Great created to build the Jewish temple on - and right on top of the site of Solomon's Temple. Why on earth did Islam co-opt the MOST sacred site in all of Judaism??? This would be the equivalent of Christians turning Mecca into a giant Christians-only city and converting all mosques into cathedrals!! What on earth were they thinking??
You can read all about the plight of Christians in Muslim ruled lands here:
The history of the persecution of Hindus is a bloody one and continues to be blood to this day. The Hindus are hit from both sides. They are victims of terrorist attacks in India where they are the majority, while they are massacred and persecuted in Pakistan and Bangladesh where they are the minority. The Hindus have hardly been angels in the modern age. But consider that the Muslim conquest killed approximately 16 million and the long succession of Muslim rulers were more often than not brutal and murderous to Hindus. Events such as the Gujarat Riots of 2002 were terrible but in comparison to historic Muslim brutality, the event would barely merit any notice at all. And you don't even need to go far into history to find atrocities that were MASSIVELY worse committed by Muslims: The Hindu Genocide in East Pakistan killed a minimum of 1.25 million Hindus and saw 10 million more fleeing into India as refugees.
The Armenian Genocide killed at least 1 million Christians. The civil war in Sudan had killed 1.9 million by 2005. Christians have composed a hugely disproportionate number of the dead in that conflict are being enslaved and sometimes sold off into other Muslim countries.
I could go on and on and on. The bigger question is, why on earth don't you already know all about the brutality being committed by Muslims all over hte world Much of it ostensibly on behalf of Islam?? All you have to do is search for it, Muslim atrocities are so commonplace that you'd have to be deaf, blind and dumb to miss them. A Muslim doing something blood-chillingly cruel to their fellow human beings isn't even news anymore, it's just too commonplace. Burning children alive, torturing children to death, gouging out eyes, maiming, rape followed by forced conversion to Islam followed by forced marriage. The world has come to expect Muslims to act like rabid animals.
Pointing out Muslim atrocities world-wide is like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm stunned that you seemed to think I'd have a hard time finding anything.
I am trying very hard to learn to respect Islam in spite of the many inhuman crimes being committed by Muslims of the world every single day. I want to think better of them. But hearing you spout off about how it was your divine destiny to take Constantinople and that you will take the rest of Europe too and no doubt put them under Sharia Law -- I'm probably going to have to block you in the near future so I can at least attempt to have some respect for Islam left. In the face of what Muslims have done to non-Muslims worldwide since 1948, what right do they have to complain enmasse about Palestine? It is so hypocritical is blows my mind.
Nothing in Islam is called the killing of non-Muslims unless they are aggressors or warriors ..
You provided many links about killing of Christians or non-Muslims by muslims through history,Yes, there are rulers Had caused the black spots in Islamic history and they were not just with non-Muslims and did not represent true Islam in their Dealing with non-Muslims if they wereunder their rule
So, Let's talk clearly and impartially, without intolerance
your media and history do not justice to Muslims and make them always are errant
what about Christian Persecution Against Muslims during theCrusades, during the Spanish Inquisition
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
No the Palestinians were not....
2 states were to come into being....
The Palestinian Grand mufti met with Hitler and collaborated with him..
So you decided to punish them all for the disposal of one person ...
Good for you
I am no longer surprised at such behavior ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 squall-lionheart your posts on this forum has quite thoroughly proven you to be hypocritical. You see the spreading of Islam by the sword, conquest of another religion's holy cities and the occupation of their lands as this wonderful thing! "Muhammed foretold this and this is just the beginning! We're going to conquer you all because it is the will of Allah! Praise Allah for giving us victory!" Yet when a tiny non-Muslim nation controls the tiniest scrap of Muslim-occupied lands it's the most horrible thing ever!
Why do you like to talk too much !!!
Any way ...
Muslims have never occupied a single land by force ...
I dare you to prove it ... If you do you will just show your ignorance to everyone ...
Go on do it ... I am waiting .
Quote:
What I would suggest is that you step back from the Quran for a second, use your brain and think. Nobody wants to be conquered and ruled over by a theocratic regime based upon a religion they believe is false. The wars of conquest in early Islamic history were cruel, barbaric and unwelcome. The people didn't appreciate having their lands taken from them -- and few people have ever stolen more lands that were not rightfully their own than Islam. The peoples they conquered didn't appreciate centuries of occupation and constant pressure to convert - somemtimes "convert if you know what's best for you" and sometimes "convert or die." They didn't appreciate mass slaughters, rapes, tortures and crimes against them that were carried out with impunity, just because they were not Muslim. Israel is the tiniest of reversals where somebody took back something that Islam stole to begin with. Why is it so offensive when somebody else does back to Islam what they've done for countless centuries??? And why so much anger over such a tiny scrap of land???
Merely an expression of a brainwashed mind ...
You have no " clean mind free space" on your system ... that is why you won't be able to accept any clean information ...
When you do a (minde format) and get rid of all the preconception viruses that damage your way of thinking then we could contneu our debate .
Quote:
Woodrow LI I am not lumping you in with the Muslims who think like that. I don't think you do. I think you present a very well thought out perspective on things and I think you really do try to understand both points of view.
Agree ...
Quote:
And you're willing to question things when some Muslims out there try to do ridiculous things like insist that the Jewish Holocaust never happened or that only a tiny handful of Jews were actually killed.
So what if I really think only tiny handful of Jews were actually killed !!!
don't you believe in freedom of speech
Stop wailing everytime someone question the holocaust & try to learn how to accept other opinions .
Quote:
The response is directed at the extremely narrow and hypocritical lack of thinking I'm seeing on the part of squall-lionheart among others. If more Muslims were a bit more broad thinking like you seem to be, I think there would be real hope for peace between the three Judeo-Christian religions
I must admit that most of Muslims do think like my brother Woodrow LI ...,Unfortunately I am one of the minority who their way of expression cause controversy... I cant help it ..., Not all people accept the truth directly .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
I do thank you for understanding I do try to see things from all perspectives. But, I do think very similar to my Brother squall-lionheart , we just have different ways of presenting our views. We both desire to defend Islam and remove the misconceptions. We are First Muslim, but we are also individual humans with our own opinions as to the best way to present the truth about Islam
Thank you my brother ... Just of you to mention my name is really an honor .
I follow all your posts & I always try to learn from you .
We're proud of you .
"May allah always be with you"
Last edited by squall-lionheart; 06-07-2011 at 08:11 AM..
Nothing in Islam is called the killing of non-Muslims unless they are aggressors or warriors ..
You provided many links about killing of Christians or non-Muslims by muslims through history,Yes, there are rulers Had caused the black spots in Islamic history and they were not just with non-Muslims and did not represent true Islam in their Dealing with non-Muslims if they wereunder their rule
So, Let's talk clearly and impartially, without intolerance
your media and history do not justice to Muslims and make them always are errant
what about Christian Persecution Against Muslims during theCrusades, during the Spanish Inquisition
You must realize that if an Eastern nation doing the killing it is Muslims who are terrorists. but if it is a Christian Nation doing the killing it is war.
It may not make sense, but it seems that the western world often fails to see they are doing the very things they accuse us of doing. the only difference is the killing by the west is done with clean, sanitary modern war equipment. there seems to be a difference if the killing is done with expensive factory made bombs or homemade IEDs.
I would like to see one valid reason why there was such massive bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan. No WMDs were found and it turns out bin Laden was not in Afghanistan.
You must realize that if an Eastern nation doing the killing it is Muslims who are terrorists. but if it is a Christian Nation doing the killing it is war.
It may not make sense, but it seems that the western world often fails to see they are doing the very things they accuse us of doing. the only difference is the killing by the west is done with clean, sanitary modern war equipment. there seems to be a difference if the killing is done with expensive factory made bombs or homemade IEDs.
I would like to see one valid reason why there was such massive bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan. No WMDs were found and it turns out bin Laden was not in Afghanistan.
Ok and the folks from Saudia Arabia weren't terrorists who flew planes into the twin towers?
Damn straight they were and yes we are at war with terrorism and if those terrorists are Muslim then we are at war with them.
We are not at war with Islam. But the Muslim terrorists...
And no we are not doing what the Muslim terrorists are doing...
If my country had not been attacked we would not have gone into Afghanistan or Iraq.
I agree going into Iraq was wrong but it is done and we are pulling out. Saddam is gone and I suspect once the Iraqis move forward they will have a country that is what they want. I suspect many Iraqis are glad Saddam is gone. I suspect the Sunni population which was the minority is not.
I suspect the Shia population is glad to have some control over the government now.
We strive to protect civilians, terrorists strive to kill as many as possible for they somehow deserve it because they live in the country the terrorists are fighting...
I think Osama Bin Laden called them guilty because they lived in the US and thus supported the US.
Afghanistan gave free reign and a safe haven to Osama Bin Laden.
The Afghans didn't even like living under the Taliban.
They were ruthless and if you were a women it was expecially bad.
An as to Osama you right he was not in Afghanistan but I suspect he was for a long time till the Pakistanis secretly gave him a place to be. He was only in that villa for 5 years. 5 years are unaccounted for.
I have no problems with jews cause they are people of book , but my real problem is With Zionism and the exploitation of the Holocaust to continue their crimes and Occupation while they committed the Holocaust in Palestine All this under the pretext that they have a right to Palestine
Zionism , Zionism , Zionism that's my real problem, Since it entered the Middle East and started problems of Arabs and Muslims there even this time it is still killing
It is not a holocaust against Muslims...
If you really had knowledge of what the genocide against the Jewish people was you would not
dare to compare the issues between Jews and Palestinians.
There is not holocaust against Palestinians, not even close...
The problem is that the Arabs said no to a 2 state solution 63 years ago and every time since then have continued to say no and have LOST everytime they attacked the Jewish state.
Now they cry victimization when the reality had they just put their efforts into building a country there would be no refugees.
And there was already a Jewish population in the middle east in fact there were communities in Iraq, Palestine, Syris, Jordan, and Lebanon and these communities had existed for 1000s of years.
You must realize that if an Eastern nation doing the killing it is Muslims who are terrorists. but if it is a Christian Nation doing the killing it is war.
It may not make sense, but it seems that the western world often fails to see they are doing the very things they accuse us of doing. the only difference is the killing by the west is done with clean, sanitary modern war equipment. there seems to be a difference if the killing is done with expensive factory made bombs or homemade IEDs.
I would like to see one valid reason why there was such massive bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan. No WMDs were found and it turns out bin Laden was not in Afghanistan.
yes my brother, Closing their eyes and ears what they are doing to Muslims, All what they did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine from the killing of innocent then we then ask us why do we blame them!!! Why Jihad!!!, Jihad defending Muslims about their rights and dignity and country against their war on us ..
When we defend our rights by Jihad say to us , we are terrorists
When we denounce the Zionist crimes in Palestine, America's crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan say to us,we pretend that are victims
Yes, we are all Muslims stand against Islamic extremism against non-Muslims but they are Still accuse more than one billion Muslims to terrorism Only grudge
However, they still give us the Absurd justification for all these crimes that they made and still doing....
What if we did what they did and we conquered their lands !!!
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