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When I read all of this it reaffirms my belief that we'd all be a lot better off without religion. It all becomes a huge pissing contest as to who is right, who is wrong and who's version of god can beat up the other guy's version of god.
The truth of religion can be found in it's written text. If religion was just a social kind of thing, I would say you would be right. Yet, as a Christian I believe that my faith is much more than a social outlet. And I believe our very life in the future will depend on who we follow. The Bible has many truths that have only verified it's claims to be the Word of God. Muslims will say the same thing about what they believe. Yet, that is why it requires a close look at both text to see which one is really speaking the truth.
Originally Posted by camping!The same as the Christian.
And yet they keep on killing in the name of $$$$ (read: power). I dunno what is worse, being killed for being a non believer or being 'married' to a 50 year old pervert (read: raped), because 16 year old girls are indoctrinated by their 'Christian' religion to be submissive to men.
It seems that freedom of religion only begs the wolves to come out and play in their ‘best’ sheep costume.
Are all people from the Netherlands as ignorant as you? It's people like you that are causing the eventual collapse of Europe. It's a real shame. It's such a pretty part of the world.
Originally Posted by camping!The same as the Christian.
And yet they keep on killing in the name of $$$$ (read: power). I dunno what is worse, being killed for being a non believer or being 'married' to a 50 year old pervert (read: raped), because 16 year old girls are indoctrinated by their 'Christian' religion to be submissive to men.
It seems that freedom of religion only begs the wolves to come out and play in their ‘best’ sheep costume.
The FDLS is a cult, and is only a small percentage of actual Christianity. Everybody thinks of them as a cult, as wrong, and certainly not a real religion. However, radical Islam is substantially a part of Islam, muslims do not reject them as anything less then legitimate and that, dear, is the difference.
As far as killing for money and power......yeah, that doesn't exist in the muslim world, now does it?
The truth of religion can be found in it's written text. If religion was just a social kind of thing, I would say you would be right. Yet, as a Christian I believe that my faith is much more than a social outlet. And I believe our very life in the future will depend on who we follow. The Bible has many truths that have only verified it's claims to be the Word of God. Muslims will say the same thing about what they believe. Yet, that is why it requires a close look at both text to see which one is really speaking the truth.
I dont think its actually possible to choose one over the other without it being due to some bias.
This is one misunderstanding that keeps rising up against Islam. Islam does not in anyway allow for the killing of any innocent soul even if in the wars
so i will answer all your question from quran and sunnah(teaches of our prophet)
islam relegion is very clear with the situation of non_muslims
[quran 60 /8:9] 8-Allah does not forbid you(muslims) to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.
9-It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimoon (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah).
[LEFT]"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"[/LEFT]
[LEFT]"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"[/LEFT]
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Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.
Last edited by camping!; 04-12-2008 at 11:08 AM..
Reason: asked same question in another thread
The truth of religion can be found in it's written text. If religion was just a social kind of thing, I would say you would be right. Yet, as a Christian I believe that my faith is much more than a social outlet. And I believe our very life in the future will depend on who we follow. The Bible has many truths that have only verified it's claims to be the Word of God. Muslims will say the same thing about what they believe. Yet, that is why it requires a close look at both text to see which one is really speaking the truth.
That's exactly what I'm saying is wrong - that it boils down to determining who is right and who is wrong. And you know what? You'll never get the Muslims to admit they're wrong any more than they can get you to admit that their religion, or Shamanism, Ancestor worship, anamism, Buddhism or any other religion is right. So, it still turns out to be a huge philisophical pissing contest that gets people angry with one another because they "don't see the light"!
Mahmoud Mrt, may I ask you a question?
What does the Muslim religion say about killing non believers? I'm referring to a case in the UK of an Imam who had said that it was alright for Muslims to kill and rape non believers. As you can imagine, that type of sentiment makes westerners uneasy
As a Muslim, could you explain this to me?
Any so called imam who say this nonsense is a criminal who should be imprisoned for life till he repent from the sin of lying over God, and clearly undo his wrong speech.
The holy Quran orders the moslim to be kind to any one a believer or non believer.
And in war it clearly specifies soldiers (who fight) and forbids hurting any civilian, this is also confirmed by the life of the prophet (pbuh) and his right traditions.
Evil men who wants to lie over God are easy to recognize, that's why they always choose stupid uneducated youth to fill their heads with fakes and lies.
I'll give you an obvious example, when you take a verse that is clearly on soldiers in war, then say it without even referring to the very verse before it.
Here are verses talking about war in the holy Quran from surah 2, verses 190 to 193, Please read them well.
190 - Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.
191 - And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the sacred mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
192 - But if they cease, God is most forgiving, most merciful.
193 - And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Now what a liar over God will do is saying verse no. 191 alone, an thus lying over God in a dreadful way.
An example, a commander write to another officer in an army, (kill only who fights you, do not kill any other) and he reads only Kill.
It needs a liar and a stupid uneducated person to follow him.
Last edited by mahmoud mrt; 04-13-2008 at 07:34 AM..
The problem Mahmoud is not the mainstream believer - its the radical element that exists in all religions. There are Catholics, Christians, etc, etc, that are just as guilty.
Sounds like you have spent to much time in one of those Islamic schools yourself. The Crusades historically were a reaction to Muslims spreading the faith by the sword. Why are muslims burning down Christian churches today? Why is Iran trying to pass laws that would put Muslims to death for converting to the Christian faith? Why are Muslims calling for the death for authors who do not agree with them? We don't have to argue about the Crusades, look for yourself what Muslims are doing to non Muslims around the world today. Are you blind. I have Christian friends over seas, and they are in constant fear of what Muslims will do because the Muslims over there like to riot and burn down churches. You don't see Christian burning down your places of worship, but we sure see your people doing it to ours. It Does not seem like your religion of peace is living up to it's name. And nothing has changed, where ever we see a strong Islamic movement, we see violence. You can see this in Africa, Europe, Asia, ect. The Quran may say one thing, but the reality is radical Islam is growing and is not going away. And it appears radical Muslims can point to the Quran to justify their evil. While the Christians around the world rush relief supplies to aid the down and outs, while the Christians speak of peace, and bring medical supplies to the needy, radical muslims kill and destroy in the name of Allah. And please, the movie, "The Kingdom of Heaven" was not a historical commetary. It was a Hollywood movie, with a total lack of facts and accuracy, and that's just what you would expect coming out Hollywood.
It seems you're also a victim of lies spread over Islam yourself.
Islam did Not spread by sword, this is a Lie. Moslims were attacked first by the roman empire.
Moslims did not kill civilian Christians, nor they ever forced anyone to be a moslim.
They did not burn churches or kill half of Christians in the middle east, this is a Lie.
Christians live very peacefully here, it seems that you and your friends are terrified of an illusion in your mind.
It seems it's useless to continue debating with you,
What is so called radical Islam, if you're talking about persons who kill innocents, they are very few minority (few hundreds), they emerged from the political problems in the middle east, they are fought and hunted in moslim countries as well as western countries,
Radical Christians have killed millions of their own and of other religions through history, while so called radical moslims have killed about 3700 in whole decade, and they then were and are hunted over the world by moslim and non moslim courtiers, in comparison of killing thousand of innocent civilian moslims in Palestine every year, hundreds of thousands in Iraq by the inhuman sanction and war, etc.
I hate any one who kill innocents regardless of his religion, this is the normal feeling of any human being, moslim or non moslim
Again read this conversation, to see how radical Islam is over exaggerated with no reason.
Does 'Fitna' show real face of Islam? (Film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders) - Political Forum - US & World Political Discussion Forums (http://www.politicsforumpoliticalworld.com/religion-philosophy-political-philosophy/12204-does-fitna-show-real-face-islam-film-dutch-politician-geert-wilders.html - broken link)
Note: I'm not expecting you to change you opinion, just Stop telling Lies about moslims.
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I dunno what is worse, being killed for being a non believer or being 'married' to a 50 year old pervert (read: raped), because 16 year old girls are indoctrinated by their 'Christian' religion to be submissive to men.
It seems that freedom of religion only begs the wolves to come out and play in their ‘best’ sheep costume.
