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Hello, I am new here. As a Christian with many muslim friends, I recently read the Quran to better understand Islam. I have also researched a bit on Muhammed. I would like to know how do you distinguish what are words from God in the Quran and what are Muhammed's? There seem to be contradictions within the Quran.
Also if the Quran is seen by some to be the final book and follows the Bible, why does it change or use out of context much of the Bible?
When I ask my friends these things they say because this is what we are told is truth..there is a reluctance to discuss anything that may throw doubt on anything to do with Prophet Muhammed, who they accept as a flesh and blood man, and so surely as such he could be prone to the same weaknesses and errors as the rest of us. I'm hoping I may find some answers here.
Hello, I am new here. As a Christian with many muslim friends, I recently read the Quran to better understand Islam. I have also researched a bit on Muhammed. I would like to know how do you distinguish what are words from God in the Quran and what are Muhammed's? There seem to be contradictions within the Quran.
Also if the Quran is seen by some to be the final book and follows the Bible, why does it change or use out of context much of the Bible?
When I ask my friends these things they say because this is what we are told is truth..there is a reluctance to discuss anything that may throw doubt on anything to do with Prophet Muhammed, who they accept as a flesh and blood man, and so surely as such he could be prone to the same weaknesses and errors as the rest of us. I'm hoping I may find some answers here.
Thank you for your time.
Muhammad(PBUH) did not write the Qur'an. He had no personal input in it. the Qur'an is the word of God(swt) Muhammad(PBUH) was simply the vessel used to deliver it. He himself did not know what would be in it until after each of the 114 revelations. the Qur'an is a compilation of 114 separate revelations given over a 20 year period of time.
The ahadith are the words of Muhammad(PBUH)
The Qur'an is the exact same message that was given in the Bible and all Revelations given to all the Prophets (pbut). The past revelations were changed, and/or lost. The Qur'an is simply the last time we are given the message and our last chance to get it right.
Each revelation in the Qur'an was given at different times and/or places and to different audiences. Some were given to Christians, some to Jews, some to Idolaters some to Atheists some to those close to Muhammad(PBUH) some to enemies of Muhammad(PBUH). the same message, but given in a way to be understood by all people.
Please feel free to ask any questions. You may have some of your Questions answered over in the Islam Forum. //www.city-data.com/forum/islam/
OOOps. I just noticed you did post this in the Islam Forum. You found us. Look around and check out some of the Question/Answer threads.
We will not try to convert you.
Religious choices can only be made through one's own free choice and their own findings. Never accept the words of any man as truth, unless you yourself have verified them. Islam has no place for "Blind following" we each have the personal responsibility of asking questions and seeking verification. One can not be a Muslim unless they them self have found reason to believe it is the Truth.
Thank you Woodrow for your reply. I did not state Muhammed wrote the Quran, he was illiterate so obviously he did not write it personally. But to say he had no direct personal imput I don't think is believable. It would seem there is much information around suggesting various people known to Muhammed responsible for compiling the Quran as it is today. So I don't see how it's possible to be certain that it is exactly the same and faithful to Muhammed's message.
Any work written by the hand of man is open to interpretation either accidentally or deliberate, if as muslims claim the Bible has been corrupted...although there is no conclusive proof for this claim. Then the same has to be true for the Quran.
There were a few sura's that I found disturbing, as a Christian, one being
Sura 5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
When I asked my friend about this verse he said well it does not translate well from Arabic and friend is more like allies. But really an allie is someone you would be on friendly terms with anyway so that explanation does not work. Also what is the point of having a religion meant for all that does not translate accurately into other languages.
To be honest I found the violent verses in the Quran strange and after the gospel of the New Testament brought to mankind by Jesus whose mission was one of love and peace, difficult to accept as words of God as the bibles view on friendship is quite different..
Colossians 3:12-14
Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
There were so many discrepancies like this I can't see the Quran has nothing in the way of enlightenment for mankind. No offence intended.
OOOps. I just noticed you did post this in the Islam Forum. You found us. Look around and check out some of the Question/Answer threads.
We will not try to convert you.
Religious choices can only be made through one's own free choice and their own findings. Never accept the words of any man as truth, unless you yourself have verified them. Islam has no place for "Blind following" we each have the personal responsibility of asking questions and seeking verification. One can not be a Muslim unless they them self have found reason to believe it is the Truth.
I shall read some of the threads and may come back with further questions. You would be wasting your time trying to convert me.. but I have to say I disagree with your "blind following" as from what I have seen Islam is very much followed blindly, taught by rote very often people not fully understanding what they are reciting.
I agree religion is a very personal choice and between oneself and God and no one else should be between. However I think it's important to have a working knowledge of other religions if for no other reason than understanding each other better, and with understanding one hopes comes peace.
For me one of the biggest failings of Islam is I see no way for mans salvation.
I shall read some of the threads and may come back with further questions. You would be wasting your time trying to convert me.. but I have to say I disagree with your "blind following" as from what I have seen Islam is very much followed blindly, taught by rote very often people not fully understanding what they are reciting.
I agree religion is a very personal choice and between oneself and God and no one else should be between. However I think it's important to have a working knowledge of other religions if for no other reason than understanding each other better, and with understanding one hopes comes peace.
For me one of the biggest failings of Islam is I see no way for mans salvation.
Thank you for your replies.
Your attitude is right. I agree with mutual understanding Peace will come. That is a noble goal you have. Feel free to ask any questions and someone here should be able to answer. We have several very knowledgeable members. I have learned much from weeam and Truth Teller and others. With Weeam you can get the views of a young lady living in Saudi.
I am still a mere baby in Islam and still have much to learn even though I am in my 70s.
I spent the first 65 years of my life fighting Islam,45 years as a Christian and 20 as an Atheist, and did my best to destroy it as I thought of it as being evil. But I discovered I was listening to fallacy and Misconceptions. It took a personal experience with Allaah(swt) for me to discover what Islam was really about. I would never want anyone to accept Islam, unless they also had such an experience.
Islam is very much a self learned. process. We have no ordained clergy, Nothing that resembles a seminary. No centralized training for Imams etc. Typically a Muslim's first teacher is his/her Mother. From there it may stop or a person may start asking question of the nearest Imam. From there the desire to ask questions grows and a lifelong learning experience begins. there are many sources available to learn about Islam. there are the ahadith, in which we can read the words of Muhammad(PBUH) and learn how he followed Islam. there is the Fiqh-ul-sunnah in which we can read the words of the earliest disciples and how they lived Islam. there have been countless Tafsir Written in which we can read how various scholars interpreted the Qur'an. We can also seek to follow a Madhab and learn the teachings of the 4 main Madhabs. On a Personal note I like most American Muslims follow the Hanafi Madhab as it is the most compatible with Western living.
I will now go look at the post you wrote before this one.
. So I don't see how it's possible to be certain that it is exactly the same and faithful to Muhammed's message. .
And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
We assuredly had taken him by the right hand
And then severed his life-artery,
And not one of you could have held Us off from him. The Noble Quran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol
There were a few sura's that I found disturbing, as a Christian, one being
Sura 5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
.
Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those
who fought not against you on account of religion
nor drove you out of your homes.
Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity. The Noble Quran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol
if as muslims claim the Bible has been corrupted...although there is no conclusive proof for this claim.
Thank you Woodrow for your reply. I did not state Muhammed wrote the Quran, he was illiterate so obviously he did not write it personally. But to say he had no direct personal imput I don't think is believable. It would seem there is much information around suggesting various people known to Muhammed responsible for compiling the Quran as it is today. So I don't see how it's possible to be certain that it is exactly the same and faithful to Muhammed's message.
Any work written by the hand of man is open to interpretation either accidentally or deliberate, if as muslims claim the Bible has been corrupted...although there is no conclusive proof for this claim. Then the same has to be true for the Quran.
There were a few sura's that I found disturbing, as a Christian, one being
Sura 5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
When I asked my friend about this verse he said well it does not translate well from Arabic and friend is more like allies. But really an allie is someone you would be on friendly terms with anyway so that explanation does not work. Also what is the point of having a religion meant for all that does not translate accurately into other languages.
To be honest I found the violent verses in the Quran strange and after the gospel of the New Testament brought to mankind by Jesus whose mission was one of love and peace, difficult to accept as words of God as the bibles view on friendship is quite different..
Colossians 3:12-14
Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
There were so many discrepancies like this I can't see the Quran has nothing in the way of enlightenment for mankind. No offence intended.
To begin with Ayyat 51 in Surah 5 is disturbing if you translate Walli as Friend. I have many Christian and Jews as Friends (Sadeek). I would never ask any of them to be my walli nor would I expect them to want to be my Walli if they knew the meaning. the person we selct to be our Walli is not just our (Sadeek) friend it is the Friend (Sadeek) we want to be our teacher and Mentor in Islam and guide us in understanding Islam. the walli is also to be our Protector in all things, Help us find a suitable spouse if we are seeking to get married, to help us to learn how to pray and many more things. A Walli is a friend but also our Protector, Mentor, teacher, Guide, Another transltion for Walli is governor, as the governor is to be the leader and protector of the people in his state.
A man does have more choice as to who will be his walli. A female is somewhat limited as a Walli has to be male so her Walli is limited to being a close Family Member usually her father or in the absence of a father an Older Brother or if that is not possible an older uncle. After marriage her Husband will be her Walli.
And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
We assuredly had taken him by the right hand
And then severed his life-artery,
And not one of you could have held Us off from him. The Noble Quran.
Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those
who fought not against you on account of religion
nor drove you out of your homes.
Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity. The Noble Quran.
Thank you for your input Truth teller. I have watched many Ahmed Deedat videos among others and find they are just pushing misconceptions and untruths. This may be effective with a Muslim audience but for anyone with a good knowledge of the scriptures their arguments are flawed at best. But they have an agenda do they not? I could offer you any number of videos arguing against the Quran but to what point. I'm sure both sides could put forward a good debate but that in itself doesn't prove anything.
To begin with Ayyat 51 in Surah 5 is disturbing if you translate Walli as Friend. I have many Christian and Jews as Friends (Sadeek). I would never ask any of them to be my walli nor would I expect them to want to be my Walli if they knew the meaning. the person we selct to be our Walli is not just our (Sadeek) friend it is the Friend (Sadeek) we want to be our teacher and Mentor in Islam and guide us in understanding Islam. the walli is also to be our Protector in all things, Help us find a suitable spouse if we are seeking to get married, to help us to learn how to pray and many more things. A Walli is a friend but also our Protector, Mentor, teacher, Guide, Another transltion for Walli is governor, as the governor is to be the leader and protector of the people in his state.
A man does have more choice as to who will be his walli. A female is somewhat limited as a Walli has to be male so her Walli is limited to being a close Family Member usually her father or in the absence of a father an Older Brother or if that is not possible an older uncle. After marriage her Husband will be her Walli.
Whichever way you portray this verse, it still is one of many that promote a negative image of non muslims. This does not fit with my interpretation of God, who is love personified. We are all created in his image so would all be worthy in his eyes. His forgiveness is for all no matter how you call his name.
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Why would God wish this? Christ spread the word of God through peaceful means. I don't understand why God would reveal such violent ways to Muhammed.
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but I have to say I disagree with your "blind following" as from what I have seen Islam is very much followed blindly, taught by rote very often people not fully understanding what they are reciting. 
