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Old 05-30-2015, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,983,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
This from the U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Cosular Affairs;
Non-Muslims are forbidden to travel to the holy city of Makkah.

Non-Muslims are strictly prohibited from entering the city of Mecca. The penalty is deportation from the country. Documentation will be checked upon entry and anyone not showing proof of being Muslim will be denied entry.

And here is another fun fact: In the U.S.A, an estimated 80 percent of mosques are supported largely with funds and imams from Saudi Arabia.
I have some doubts about 80% of the Masjids in the US being funded by Saudi and having Imams from Saudi. I have lived in and attended mosques in Texas, Minnesota, Ct and North Dakota and never seen a single Imam from Saudi, for that matter not ever one that spoke Arabic as a vernacular language. Nearly every Imam I have met has been either from Pakistan or a Native born American.

When I had a Masjid I found it impossible to even get a loan from anyone in Saudi to assist me with expenses for my Masjid. The Imams in Saudi are predominatly of the Hanbali Madhad which is not very acceptable to most Muslims outside the Arabian Penninsula. Hanbali is only the majority Madhab in Saudi and Qatar

Quote:
Muslim Countries of which the majority is Hanbali
Qatar, Saudi Arabia
List of Muslim Countries According to Their Madhabs - Ask a Question to Us



There are about 2300 Masjids in the US less than 700 of them even have an Imam. very few Masjids in the US have over 50 members the vast majority are a spare room in someones house with each person in the immediate community taking turns being the Imam.

There are probably 50 mosques in the US that have over 100 Members, It is possible 80% of them are supported by Imams from Saudi. But not likely as it seems the largests mosques are NOI or Shi'a neither of which is likely to get any support from a Saudi.
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Old 05-30-2015, 01:49 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,773,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
NoCapo, you don't know that some Christians, make the pilgrimage to Mecca.
That would be their business, although I have no idea why a Christian would make a pilgrimage to Mecca. I don't believe in anybody's god, so I am not really interested in performing religious observances. That said, I often do try to make an effort to expose myself to other cultures, including religion. I have been to a Catholic Mass, an Evensong at Kings College, and I would not mind visiting other faiths, but I am a very firm unbeliever, so I don't want to disrespect anyone's faith. I tend not to show up uninvited to those sorts of things.

That being said, I probably couldn't visit Saudi Arabia if I wanted to until I get a new passport, since I have an entry stamp from Israel... I did not know enough at the time to get a separate detachable page for my business trip to Israel or have them not stamp the passport, and now it is simply not worth the hassle to try to get a new passport on the off chance I will want to travel in the Middle East...

Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Well, we all have a lot to learn, in the life of this world.
Yup, which is why I encourage people to dig a bit before reciting stuff they heard online, or from a friend of a friend as fact. This is not directed a Muslims specifically, or even just the religious (although in my experience the religious tend to assume that is someone else of their faith told them something, it must be true). It is too easy to spread misinformation and outright lies, and it can do great harm to spread half-truths or biased information. We all, regardless of faith, have a human obligation to think before we speak, and critically examine all we hear.

As a handy tip, if you read something online or in an email, it is often wise to check Snopes.com before passing it on or getting worked up about it. They do a pretty good job of separating fact from fiction, especially about current events, and political issues.


-NoCapo
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Old 05-30-2015, 02:53 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,011,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I have some doubts about 80% of the Masjids in the US being funded by Saudi and having Imams from Saudi. I have lived in and attended mosques in Texas, Minnesota, Ct and North Dakota and never seen a single Imam from Saudi, for that matter not ever one that spoke Arabic as a vernacular language. Nearly every Imam I have met has been either from Pakistan or a Native born American.

When I had a Masjid I found it impossible to even get a loan from anyone in Saudi to assist me with expenses for my Masjid. The Imams in Saudi are predominatly of the Hanbali Madhad which is not very acceptable to most Muslims outside the Arabian Penninsula. Hanbali is only the majority Madhab in Saudi and Qatar

List of Muslim Countries According to Their Madhabs - Ask a Question to Us



There are about 2300 Masjids in the US less than 700 of them even have an Imam. very few Masjids in the US have over 50 members the vast majority are a spare room in someones house with each person in the immediate community taking turns being the Imam.

There are probably 50 mosques in the US that have over 100 Members, It is possible 80% of them are supported by Imams from Saudi. But not likely as it seems the largests mosques are NOI or Shi'a neither of which is likely to get any support from a Saudi.
I agree with Woodrow here. I've lived in several States and have never attended a masjid that even had a Saudi Imam. I think the 80% figure is probably a very-very broad definition (if true) whereby any Saudi dollars that get donated to the Mosque counts as being "supported by the Saudis". There's a very large Saudi student population whom donate quite a bit of money to their local mosques, but this is hardly the narrative of the Saudi *regime* supporting Mosques directly.
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Old 05-30-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,983,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
I agree with Woodrow here. I've lived in several States and have never attended a masjid that even had a Saudi Imam. I think the 80% figure is probably a very-very broad definition (if true) whereby any Saudi dollars that get donated to the Mosque counts as being "supported by the Saudis". There's a very large Saudi student population whom donate quite a bit of money to their local mosques, but this is hardly the narrative of the Saudi *regime* supporting Mosques directly.
I think where the confusion comes in is what constitutes a masjid. The vast Majority of Mosques in the USA, Canada, Mexico and south America would not even be recognized as a Mosque by most non-Muslims. About all they woule recognize are the large elaborate ones with a dome. There are very few of them in the Americas and I can see the possibility 80% of those have received funding from Saudis.

The largest Mosque in Austin TX, This one I am very familiar with and it is financed 100
5 by local Pakistan-American Businessmen and Medical professionals I used to attend it very often and never saw one Arab there. The majority of the regulars were Pakistani. Hispanic, African-American and Anglo-American. But in reading the web page I see it now has Arab Members and an Arab Imam from Egypt. The Arab population in Austin must have grown since I left Texas.

Center Profile

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 05-30-2015 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
5,277 posts, read 2,778,110 times
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Before making any observation of any religious talk, speech, or discussion this is the imporant page to study:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

Notice how much of this thread appears lifted directly from this page.

Before forming any conclusion regarding an energy, practice, mood, or feeling obtained when participating in a religious event study this subject:

Folie a Deux

I apologize for my French. This aspect of religion requires far more reflection than understanding the charlatan. The question this topic raises is really:

Why does the group follow the charlatan?

The best paper I found so far is located here:

What is shared in shared psychosis: Folie a Deux – a Social-Psychological Approach.

Last edited by pbmaise; 05-31-2015 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:10 AM
 
352 posts, read 417,683 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.



For year's I have heard that some 'well placed Christians' have made the hajj to Mecca. I will not name names, so I cannot offer proof. Obviously, it was to be a hush-hush situation, for whatever reason. I've always felt sympathetic towards the Christians, desiring to make hajj; those whom worship the One God, Almighty. And according to this article, things need to change: Al Hajj : How Muslims Distorted Al Hajj (The Pilgrimage)




Quote:
This from the U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Cosular Affairs;
Non-Muslims are forbidden to travel to the holy city of Makkah.

Non-Muslims are strictly prohibited from entering the city of Mecca. The penalty is deportation from the country. Documentation will be checked upon entry and anyone not showing proof of being Muslim will be denied entry.

And here is another fun fact: In the U.S.A, an estimated 80 percent of mosques are supported largely with funds and imams from Saudi Arabia. Tzaphkiel




Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,983,775 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.



For year's I have heard that some 'well placed Christians' have made the hajj to Mecca. I will not name names, so I cannot offer proof. Obviously, it was to be a hush-hush situation, for whatever reason. I've always felt sympathetic towards the Christians, desiring to make hajj; those whom worship the One God, Almighty. And according to this article, things need to change: Al Hajj : How Muslims Distorted Al Hajj (The Pilgrimage)










Wassalaam. devotee


While there is some justification to reopen Makkah and Madinat Rasul Allah for non-Muslims and allow them to go on Ummrah, For Hajj there are many obstacles that make it difficult.

During the 5 Days of Hajj there already is a long waiting period and even so most Muslims will never be able to make Hajj. Currently there is only enough room for about 2 million people during Hajj. At that rate it would take over 900 years for every Muslim living today to make the Hajj.

Every Non-Muslim who does to Hajj is taking a space a Muslim could have used.

Keep in mind Hajj is only from the 8-12th days of the month of Hajj.
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Old 06-02-2015, 12:20 PM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,040,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Keep in mind Hajj is only from the 8-12th days of the month of Hajj.
And keep in mind that non-Muslims are barred entry to Mecca 365 days a year.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-02-2015 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:00 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,011,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
And keep in mind that non-Muslims are barred entry to Mecca 365 days a year.
That's an injunction directly from Allah (swt) in the Quran. It has nothing to do with what our feelings are or what we *feel* is good...the order is given and we submit.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,983,775 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
And keep in mind that non-Muslims are barred entry to Mecca 365 days a year.
What Purpose would a non-Muslim have to go to either Mecca or Medina? Outside of curiosity.
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