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Muslims are sent to heaven in miscarriages?
How unlucky for the pubescent, who accidentally "break their contract with Allah" that they don't even remember making.
I am not with my dictionary, so I couldn't verify your vocabularies.
But I think You still get me wrong. I mean I adore the Quran the most, and even the religion which is called Islam. And it is because Islam has no ideal of the blood sacarfices. If you sin with or without ignorance, then ask to be forgiven. And surely Allah is gracious.
The Islamic war clauses were to apply on the foes that threatened, generally speaking, Allah. And Allah is believe to be the one who killth and maketh alive. And He doth whatever He pleases. And for us whose privileages reach not so, the destroyings might not be merited.
I am not with my dictionary, so I couldn't verify your vocabularies.
But I think You still get me wrong. I mean I adore the Quran the most, and even the religion which is called Islam. And it is because Islam has no ideal of the blood sacrifices. If you sin with or without ignorance, then ask to be forgiven. And surely Allah is gracious.
The Islamic war clauses were to apply on the foes that threatened, generally speaking, Allah. And Allah is believe to be the one who killth and maketh alive. And He doth whatever He pleases. And for us whose privileages reach not so, the destroyings might not be merited.
gtg time running out.
The above views are too shallow and narrow which are not in correspondence to reality. What we need are holistic views that conform to reality.
Here is the reality.
8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I will throw fear [terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
8:13. That is because they [infidels] opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.
What you get when the necks of non-Muslims are cut? Blood!
Note the reality of ISIS [and others throughout history] cutting of necks and beheading infidels merely on the basis they do not believe in Allah and His messenger as sanctioned by the above and other verses in the Quran.
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The Islamic war clauses were to apply on the foes that threatened.
The other word is when Allah is 'wronged.'
The fact is theism and religions is driven by a basis that is ultra-sensitive and extra alertness within the psyche of the theists. That is why even 'Cartoons' will invoke theists to kill not only the cartoonists but also others.
Because the ultra-sensitive state of the theists, they will interpret any acts of the infidels they do not feel uncomfortable as a threat to the religion or their religion is wronged and thus warrant an act of defending the religion.
In fact if one read the Quran the very existence of non-Muslim itself is a threat to the religion.
This is why the 'West' is readily attributed as a threat and the USA is the Great Satan, thus Muslims can attack them at any time. Do we need proofs for this when it is so evident?
90% of Muslim can be regarded as good people.
The reality is there are 1.5 billion Muslims. If 10% are regarded as potentially evil, we have a quantum of 150 millions evil prone Muslims around the world. If only 1% we have 15 million!
The reality [again] is it only took 18++ to do a 911 and even lone wolf [s] can cause terrible terror to humanity because they are extra sensitive, evil prone and act on the evil laden verses to trigger real evils and violence around the world. [reality again].
In the Quran, Allah stated he is doing the killing in reality and intent, the Muslims who kill are merely puppets on strings handled by Allah.
8:17. Ye (Muslims) slew them [infidels] not, but Allah slew them [the infidels]. ..........
This taking over of responsibility from the believers give the evil prone believers more incentive to kill in accordance to the valid 'kill' verses.
I suggest you get more in line with reality.
Last edited by Continuum; 09-15-2015 at 12:13 AM..
I consider my self to be quite mainstream Muslim. I am Sunni and follow the Hanafi Madhab. (The Hanafi Madhab does differ slightly by location as one of the sources is local practices and tradition) I have yet to come across any major differences with other Muslims I know. I have lived in the Mideast and North Africa and virtually all of my family is Muslim. My oldest Daughter is Shi'ite, the rest of us are Sunni, mostly Hanafi but most with some Sufi tendencies. My wife's Family is nearly 100% Muslim However her Grand Children are Ahmadyyah I did not accept Islam until I was 65 years old, however my Children accepted Islam at least 20 years before me and all my Grand Children and Great grand Children are Muslim
You consider your quasi-liberal ideas to be mainstream? I'm glad you haven't found any major difference among the members of your denomination of Mohammedan Islam, I suppose you are suggesting that your uniqueness is therefore meaningless, and the truth quality of those differences are "unimportant." How defeatist and tribal.
Psychology tells us that people fall to the cultures around them, they need friends after all, and don't actually care about the "unknowable truth" that much. Religion is often about geography (that is to say, a culture cultivates itself).
Are there statistics proving that your idea is currently the most mainstream? What is the point of Muhammadian Islam if any other "acceptable" version of Submission to Monotheist Fascism is acceptable?
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One point I have not made clear. I am not saying a Muslim is not obligated to follow the Qur'an. I am saying it is possible to be a Muslim with no knowledge of the Qur'an or of Muhammad(saws)
Accidentally following the Qur'an, what an interestingly insane idea.
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How a Muslims defines being a Muslims seems to differ from how a non-Muslim defines it. Possibly because non-Muslims do not want to acknowledge Jesus and Moses (PBUT) performed Islam.
No, it's because they are well aware and sure that Muhammad was no friend of their Imaginary Creator, nor a prophet representing their "sure to be correct" believes.
"I am saying it is possible to be a Muslim with no knowledge of the Qur'an or of Muhammad(saws)"
How?
The same way all babies are until they reach the age of accountability at which time they make their own choices
The same way all who submitted to God(swt) before Muhammad such as the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians that followed the teachings of all the Prophets up to their time.
The same way that all people who worship the God of Abraham, but have no knowledge of Muhammad(saws) or the Qur'an through no fault of their own, are Muslims.
There is nothing that makes a person a Muslim, one does not join Islam. It is the act of Submitting to God(swt) to the best of ones ability.
While we do believe all who have reason to know of Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an have to at a minimum believe the Shahadah is true and to recite it (Privatly or before other people) at least once, with sincerity.
The same way all babies are until they reach the age of accountability at which time they make their own choices
The same way all who submitted to God(swt) before Muhammad such as the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians that followed the teachings of all the Prophets up to their time.
The same way that all people who worship the God of Abraham, but have no knowledge of Muhammad(saws) or the Qur'an through no fault of their own, are Muslims.
There is nothing that makes a person a Muslim, one does not join Islam. It is the act of Submitting to God(swt) to the best of ones ability.
While we do believe all who have reason to know of Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an have to at a minimum believe the Shahadah is true and to recite it (Privatly or before other people) at least once, with sincerity.
Here is where you are relying on rhetoric to support your point and that is a fallacy.
It is very clear cut in the Quran [words of Allah] where it represent what is the concept of a 'Muslim-proper'.
When you bring in babies, certain Christians, Jews and others, these are merely 'Muslims' by name and circumstances only. We cannot generalize these people as Muslim-proper.
To understand what is a 'Muslim proper' one should review all of the 6,236 verses and abstract from them what is essentially a 'Muslim'. Here are a few examples of verses where one can abstract the 'concept' of a 'Muslim-proper'. [mine]
2:285. The messenger believeth in that [Quran] which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers [Muslims]. Each one [Muslim] believeth in [1]- Allah and His [2]- Angels and His [3]- Scriptures and His [4]- Messengers. We [Allah] make no distinction between any of His messengers and they [messengers] say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee [Allah] is the journeying.
2:177. It is not righteousness that ye [Muslims] turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he [Muslim] who: believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture [Quran] and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due [zakat]. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they [Muslims] who are sincere. Such [Muslims] are the God fearing.
47:19. So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah,
48:29. [Allah said:] Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
There are many other similar verses as above and it is from these verses of the Quran that one can abstract the concept of what is a 'Muslim' proper.
From the Quran one can infer babies of Muslim parent are considered 'Muslims' but they are not 'Muslim-proper.' One could extend to fetus as well, but these points are not that as significant as who is a Muslim-proper.
What is significant is to define 'Who is a Muslim-proper and that can only be done from the words of Allah, i.e. the Quran as revealed to Muhammad.
Here is where you are relying on rhetoric to support your point and that is a fallacy.
It is very clear cut in the Quran [words of Allah] where it represent what is the concept of a 'Muslim-proper'.
When you bring in babies, certain Christians, Jews and others, these are merely 'Muslims' by name and circumstances only. We cannot generalize these people as Muslim-proper.
To understand what is a 'Muslim proper' one should review all of the 6,236 verses and abstract from them what is essentially a 'Muslim'. Here are a few examples of verses where one can abstract the 'concept' of a 'Muslim-proper'. [mine]
2:285. The messenger believeth in that [Quran] which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers [Muslims]. Each one [Muslim] believeth in [1]- Allah and His [2]- Angels and His [3]- Scriptures and His [4]- Messengers. We [Allah] make no distinction between any of His messengers and they [messengers] say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee [Allah] is the journeying.
2:177. It is not righteousness that ye [Muslims] turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he [Muslim] who: believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture [Quran] and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due [zakat]. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they [Muslims] who are sincere. Such [Muslims] are the God fearing.
47:19. So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah,
48:29. [Allah said:] Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
There are many other similar verses as above and it is from these verses of the Quran that one can abstract the concept of what is a 'Muslim' proper.
From the Quran one can infer babies of Muslim parent are considered 'Muslims' but they are not 'Muslim-proper.' One could extend to fetus as well, but these points are not that as significant as who is a Muslim-proper.
What is significant is to define 'Who is a Muslim-proper and that can only be done from the words of Allah, i.e. the Quran as revealed to Muhammad.
What can be any clearer.
Islam is an Arabic verm. It means "The action of submitting to God(swt).
A person who performs the action of Islam is a Musli(Male) Muslimah(female).
There have been people from Adam(pbuh) onward that have submitted to God(swt) --Therefore performed Islam and were Muslims.
The methodology of performing Islam is very individualistic and based upon a person's knowledge and ability.
You can not pigeon hole Islam as something limited only to people familiar with Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an.While it is true that once a person has knowledge of the Qur'an and of Muhammad(swas) They are to be followed as the source of Islam
But even in today's world of instantaneous communication you still have people who through no fault of their own have no knowledge of Muhammad(saws) or the Qur'an. They are not held accountable for that which they do not know and if they are submitting to god(swt) to the best of their ability and knowledge, they are Muslim and part of the Ummah even if they are unaware of the Ummah and never even heard of Muslims.
Today there are 1.5 to 1.7 billion people that acknowledge being Muslim and are therefore part of the Ummah, but the number is probably higher as there are still people in isolated regions that are submitting to God(swt) to the best of their ability and knowledge, but are unaware that action is the performance of Islam. It is also possible some sincere Jews, Sabeeans and non-Trinitarian Christians are performing Islam. (That is a seperate topic)
What can be any clearer.
Islam is an Arabic term. It means "The action of submitting to God(swt).
A person who performs the action of Islam is a Musli(Male) Muslimah(female).
There are many other religion where believers submit to God.
Note in Hinduism;
I consider the yogi-devotee—who lovingly contemplates on Me with supreme faith, and whose mind is ever absorbed in Me—to be the best of all the yogis.
Bhagavad Gita— Chapter 6, Verse 47
After attaining Me, the great souls do not incur rebirth in this miserable transitory world, because they have attained the highest perfection.
— Chapter 8, Verse 15
... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... For those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter.
— Chapter 12, Verses 6-8
The other Abrahamic religions, i.e. Judaism and Christianity also submit to God but they will never claim to be Islam.
Therefore even thought 'Islam' may mean 'submission to God' Islam-proper is not defined by the 'act of submission.'
Hinduism is a religion and the 'Hindu' is reference to the Indus River. Christianity is associated with Christ, Buddhism is associated with Buddha.
To define What is Islam we must have the following imperative properties;
1. Human Beings
2. Religion - to define
3. Monotheistic -Abrahamic
4. Quran revealed to Muhammad by Allah
5. Muhammad
Your definition of Islam; Islam means "The action of submitting to God(swt)" is insufficient.
Quote:
There have been people from Adam(pbuh) onward that have submitted to God(swt) --Therefore performed Islam and were Muslims.
The methodology of performing Islam is very individualistic and based upon a person's knowledge and ability.
You can not pigeon hole Islam as something limited only to people familiar with Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an.While it is true that once a person has knowledge of the Qur'an and of Muhammad(swas) They are to be followed as the source of Islam
But even in today's world of instantaneous communication you still have people who through no fault of their own have no knowledge of Muhammad(saws) or the Qur'an. They are not held accountable for that which they do not know and if they are submitting to god(swt) to the best of their ability and knowledge, they are Muslim and part of the Ummah even if they are unaware of the Ummah and never even heard of Muslims.
Today there are 1.5 to 1.7 billion people that acknowledge being Muslim and are therefore part of the Ummah, but the number is probably higher as there are still people in isolated regions that are submitting to God(swt) to the best of their ability and knowledge, but are unaware that action is the performance of Islam. It is also possible some sincere Jews, Sabeeans and non-Trinitarian Christians are performing Islam. (That is a seperate topic)
Regardless of the above the proper definition of Islam should start with something of the following which incorporate the imperative characteristic of what made 'Islam' as essentially Islam.
The above definition represent the core of what is Islam.
From the core you can then bring in your above variations and circumstances that surround the core, e.g.
1. Previous teachings claimed to be Islam
2. The methodology centered on the Quran and its degrees.
3. Those who has who are aware but have no detailed knowledge of the Quran
You cannot claim anyone submitting to God as practicing Islam. This is ridiculous and an intellectual insult. These people who submit to God and who are not aware of the Quran and Muhammad could belong to Hinduism and other religions.
The only distinction that differentiate all these people of other religion who also submit to God is the Quran and Muhammad.
There are many other religion where believers submit to God.
Note in Hinduism;
I consider the yogi-devotee—who lovingly contemplates on Me with supreme faith, and whose mind is ever absorbed in Me—to be the best of all the yogis.
Bhagavad Gita— Chapter 6, Verse 47
After attaining Me, the great souls do not incur rebirth in this miserable transitory world, because they have attained the highest perfection.
— Chapter 8, Verse 15
... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... For those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter.
— Chapter 12, Verses 6-8
The other Abrahamic religions, i.e. Judaism and Christianity also submit to God but they will never claim to be Islam.
Therefore even thought 'Islam' may mean 'submission to God' Islam-proper is not defined by the 'act of submission.'
Hinduism is a religion and the 'Hindu' is reference to the Indus River. Christianity is associated with Christ, Buddhism is associated with Buddha.
To define What is Islam we must have the following imperative properties;
1. Human Beings
2. Religion - to define
3. Monotheistic -Abrahamic
4. Quran revealed to Muhammad by Allah
5. Muhammad
Your definition of Islam; Islam means "The action of submitting to God(swt)" is insufficient.
Regardless of the above the proper definition of Islam should start with something of the following which incorporate the imperative characteristic of what made 'Islam' as essentially Islam.
The above definition represent the core of what is Islam.
From the core you can then bring in your above variations and circumstances that surround the core, e.g.
1. Previous teachings claimed to be Islam
2. The methodology centered on the Quran and its degrees.
3. Those who has who are aware but have no detailed knowledge of the Quran
You cannot claim anyone submitting to God as practicing Islam. This is ridiculous and an intellectual insult. These people who submit to God and who are not aware of the Quran and Muhammad could belong to Hinduism and other religions.
The only distinction that differentiate all these people of other religion who also submit to God is the Quran and Muhammad.
Islam is the Submission to God(swt) to the best of one's ability and knowledge.
As one's knowledge of the Qur'an and of Muhammad increase, so do the requirements for performing Islam
The imprtant factors are sincerity and the individuals effort to constantly learn about ways to submit. (Perform Islam)
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