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Old 10-27-2015, 04:14 PM
 
5,462 posts, read 3,032,557 times
Reputation: 3271

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
The problem is with the rule set of Islam.

The Old Testament, just like the Bible or Quran, is only a set of somewhat cryptic and sometimes contradictory statements. It's the interpretation of it - known as Talmud - that sets the rules of behavior. And these rules have been set centuries ago to specifically exclude the things like stoning, slavery etc. Spinosa wasn't stoned to death for blasphemy, he was ostracized. A Jew who becomes a Buddhist or a pagan isn't being killed for idolatry by the fellow Jews anywhere in the world. Despite a very clear direction in the Old Testament. And while I don't know when the last stoning of a cheating Jewish wife had happened, I can guarantee you it had not been a pressing issue for centuries (stoning, not cheating )Christianity (the major branches) has also amended it's rule sets in the past two hundred years to specifically exclude sanctioned murder.

This did not happen within Islam, all the heavily religious Islamic countries practice Sharia just as they were in the Middle Ages.

Also, both the Judaism and Christianity have very different views towards the "infidels" than Islam does. According to Judaism, a non-Jew can become "righteous" (their version of going to heaven) by simply following the Ten Commandments and generally being a good person, regardless of their beliefs (a Jew must work harder for the same goal, complying with over 600 rules). The Christians generally believe that non-Christians will not go to heaven, and are often engaging in proselytizing, but no mainstream Christian denomination today advocates forced conversions. In contrast, Jihad against the infidels is declared the sacred duty of any Muslim.

Islam today is where Judaism was in the days of King David, or Christianity was during Middle Ages. And it shows no signs of changing.

Are there moderate Muslims ? Sure. But are they really devout Muslims ?
All religions advocate and practice violence. Muslims gets the most spotlight though and get singled out.

The Buddhist King Ashoka waged war which cost millions of lives before embracing Buddhism. The recently ended Sri Lankan conflict was more of a religious war between Christians and Buddhists then ethno linguistic.

In Hindu history, God himself supervised the war in which over 10 million people perished . British have caused the most deaths in the name of Colonization. World wars killed so many people.

 
Old 10-27-2015, 04:28 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,941,105 times
Reputation: 12122
The people that Westerners consider "good" or "moderate" Muslims are not considered good Muslims by the tenets of the religion. It's a religion that was invented/used as a pretext for a warlord to conquer lands, pillage, plunder and rape. That is not a religion that is compatible with liberal Western values.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,261 posts, read 949,720 times
Reputation: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
The people that Westerners consider "good" or "moderate" Muslims are not considered good Muslims by the tenets of the religion.
Evidence, please?
 
Old 10-27-2015, 05:16 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,708,564 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by tassity22 View Post
ALL these people spoke with American accents, although several claimed (or hinted) they weren't American. Something doesn't seem right about this. There weren't any Muslims from other countries being represented. We don't have a full picture here.
I assumed this video was made by American Muslim hence the American accent. There are many immigrants in USA who speak with American accent, especially if they moved to this country at young age. One of the guy said "my ancestors were on May Flower". The video showed plenty of diversity, it had white, black, middle eastern, Asian (did it have Asian?).
 
Old 10-27-2015, 05:49 PM
 
Location: USA
30,996 posts, read 22,039,678 times
Reputation: 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game. Liberal Muslims are clearly very different from militant Muslims, just like Christians that only go to church on Christmas and Easter are very different from the Christians that bomb clinics and shoot doctors. My problem is with their silence and inaction.


*women must marry their rapists or be stoned to death, slavery is good, people can be traded for livestock, God is a petulant child that demands sacrifices, infidels are to be converted or killed, etc
"Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game" Really?

Lets see? How many Christian Terrorist groups are on the list below. Islam is an order of magnitude more dangerous than any other religion in the world. Currently, there are Terrorist attacks on other religion and Atheists by Muslims on every continent on Earth except Antartica. There really is no comparible religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rrorist_groups
 
Old 10-27-2015, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,626,929 times
Reputation: 3220
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
I'd just like to point out that FGC and FGM are cultural practices, not religious practices. There are no religious texts in Islam, Christianity or Judaism that support either practice. In some countries that practice it, it is more common among the Christian population. In others, it is more common among the Muslim population. There are places where it is also practiced in the Jewish community.

I just want to point out that male circumcision, on the other hand, is mentioned in the OT and the Sunnah (but not the Quran). It is practiced widely in both Islam and Judaism and even here in the US against boys who are too young to make the decision for themselves. This isn't an issue that affects girls only.
You can't compare male circumcision with female genital mutilation. What it does to these girls scars them for life, makes sex and urination extremely painful. While I think circumcision is wrong and not necessary, it doesn't do this to males.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,183,078 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
Jesus specifically prevented a stoning from occurring. He abhorred violence. He is a total break from the Old Testament. He sent a giant shockwave through the traditional OT Jewish community.
The OT is not the foundation of Christian faith. Jesus is. You should actually learn before you condemn.
Irony, thy name is Tyster.

Q. How did Jesus view the Old Testament? - bethinking.org

"Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18)."

But I guess you wouldn't be interested in actual scripture. I know modern Christianity is based on making things up and lying about them being in the Bible.

Quote:
Communist... Democrat... Is there really much of a difference these days? Ayers preaches the exact same ideological garbage the Democratic Party does.
Ooh, sick burn, bro. The Democratic party sure does demand everyone be atheistic and have no personal possessions or ownership, huh?

Your ignorance is astounding.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,626,929 times
Reputation: 3220
This video reminds me of something my mother said to me years ago.

I was raised protestant Christian, but when I was a teenager and old enough to start thinking about it I started questioning every thing about it. My mom said to me something like, go to church, listen to what they have to say, only keep the parts you like and forget about the rest and live your life, that's what I do. I think that's what these young people in this video are doing with Islam.

I eventually wised up forgot about the whole church thing and I'm agnostic. Why belong to a group where you don't want to support what they stand for and preach?
 
Old 10-27-2015, 06:21 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,183,078 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"Christianity is no better* so let's not play this game" Really?

Lets see? How many Christian Terrorist groups are on the list below. Islam is an order of magnitude more dangerous than any other religion in the world. Currently, there are Terrorist attacks on other religion and Atheists by Muslims on every continent on Earth except Antartica. There really is no comparible religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rrorist_groups
Yes, Islam is the most dangerous religion right now. But Christianity was used to terrorize the world before Islam was ever created. All religion is stupid and dangerous. To pretend Christianity isn't dangerous just because it hasn't been so bad lately is foolish.
 
Old 10-27-2015, 06:51 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,993 posts, read 16,956,874 times
Reputation: 30099
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
I just want to point out that male circumcision, on the other hand, is mentioned in the OT and the Sunnah (but not the Quran). It is practiced widely in both Islam and Judaism and even here in the US against boys who are too young to make the decision for themselves. This isn't an issue that affects girls only.
Let's be clear. It's an Abrahamic covenant that must be carried out on all healthy Jewish boys at eight days old, even if the day is Yom Kippur. It is carried out on them, not against them.
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