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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.
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Originally Posted by juju33312
People can ignore reality, but they cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
There will be more and more Islamic terrorist attacks. Europe will slip back into being a third world country. And so will the rest of the west unless we stop this madness.
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.
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I had suggested you reread the Quran again a few time in chronological order and note how this "us versus them" i.e. us =Muslim-good versus them=infidels-evil is so prevalent throughout the Quran. After taking note you should feel the hatred and contempt that is directed against the non-Muslims who are condemned and dehumanized as pigs, apes, worst of all creatures, cattle, etc. I don't see how you can counter this terrible hatred that is oozing from the Qur'an
I feel no hate or contempt towards non-Muslims. However, I suspect that it is the non-Muslim who is condemning the non-Muslim and dehumanizing them as pigs, apes and worse, cattle, etc.. But see the precursor to your perceived event.
What you said is bold is due to ignorance and being uneducated in human nature.
The "us versus them" impulse in the modern era is one of the most toxic evil laden element.
The other name for is the 'in-group versus out-group.
I suggest you do extensive research on this element of "us versus them" which is very fundamental in the Quran & Islam and understand why it is evil laden of the worst kind.
Here is one indication,
Therefore, we divided the world into “them” and “us” based through a process of social categorization (i.e. we put people into social groups).
This is known as in-group (us) and out-group (them). Social identity theory states that the in-group will discriminate against the out-group to enhance their self-image.
The central hypothesis of social identity theory is that group members of an in-group will seek to find negative aspects of an out-group, thus enhancing their self-image.
Prejudiced views between cultures may result in racism; in its extreme forms, racism may result in genocide, such as occurred in Germany with the Jews, in Rwanda between the Hutus and Tutsis and, more recently, in the former Yugoslavia between the Bosnians and Serbs. Social Identity Theory | Simply Psychology
Read as many articles as possible on the subject of "us versus them" [to ensure you are not ignorant and uneducated on this subject] and you will note at the extreme it leads to terrible evils, violence and genocide. This is a reality that had already committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are driven by this "us versus them" impulse from the Quran and the ethos of Islam.
I had suggested you reread the Quran again a few time in chronological order and note how this "us versus them" i.e. us =Muslim-good versus them=infidels-evil is so prevalent throughout the Quran. After taking note you should feel the hatred and contempt that is directed against the non-Muslims who are condemned and dehumanized as pigs, apes, worst of all creatures, cattle, etc. I don't see how you can counter this terrible hatred that is oozing from the Quran.
From Female Muslim doctor, Simi Rahman:
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It is present in the very concept of Us and Them. Because the only way we remain Us is to reject Them.
This is NOT unique to Islam or religion either, but in religions like Islam and Christianity, you can sure get far more people to sign up with the mentality.
It is nothing but propaganda. I see it even in the early books of the Jewish scriptures where "Us" (the Hebrew Israelites) drew up their propaganda about "Them" (the Canaanites) to then, justify their extermination and robbery of their land. They even went as far to "predict" the justification by claiming that the progenitor of the Canaanites (Canaan), was cursed by Noah to become subjugated (in the future) by the children of the more faithful sons (Shem and Japheth). Lock, stock and barrel CLASSIC propaganda to justify hate, robbery, killings, rape, plunder, etc. Through in some "eternal life" of bliss or "patriotism" in the "struggle" against evil or "weapons of mass destruction" and you can get many to do the most evil.
My issue with Islam starts in its very infancy so for me, there is NOTHING beyond its genesis that can even convince me of ANY legitimacy of the religion. The minute I recognized the religion started with a man sitting in a cave in meditation, claiming he heard voices (a voice) speaking to him, it was wrap for me. I do NOT accept such claims from any crazy man on the street, Mormon Joseph Smith who claimed the same thing OR any biblical prophet who proclaimed, "thus saith the Lord" so Muhammad receives ZERO credibility from me on his NON-corroborated claims as he was the ONLY person hearing this voice.
That being said, I will admit that there are some VERY fine Muslim people around. I have NO hatred toward Muslims at all. I HATE to see them being marginalized because of the few a-holes, but I believe, wholeheartedly, that many are the fine people they are DESPITE their religion and NOT in spite of it and it is what THEY bring to it and not so much what it brings to them. Those who operate IN spite of it and allow it to bring to them, to the point where they follow it to the tee, down to emulations, are the dangerous ones, yet the ones who are being the most "true" to what they read WITHOUT any mental gymnastics to get past the most odious contents. It is no different than good Christian people excusing uncomfortable passages in their holy book by coming up with the "well, THAT was under the law" loophole when necessary, but cherry picking other things to suit their fancy when ready.
My issue with Islam starts in its very infancy so for me, there is NOTHING beyond its genesis that can even convince me of ANY legitimacy of the religion. The minute I recognized the religion started with a man sitting in a cave in meditation, claiming he heard voices (a voice) speaking to him, it was wrap for me. I do NOT accept such claims from any crazy man on the street, Mormon Joseph Smith who claimed the same thing OR any biblical prophet who proclaimed, "thus saith the Lord" so Muhammad receives ZERO credibility from me on his NON-corroborated claims as he was the ONLY person hearing this voice.
That being said, I will admit that there are some VERY fine Muslim people around. I have NO hatred toward Muslims at all. I HATE to see them being marginalized because of the few a-holes, but I believe, wholeheartedly, that many are the fine people they are DESPITE their religion and NOT in spite of it and it is what THEY bring to it and not so much what it brings to them. Those who operate IN spite of it and allow it to bring to them, to the point where they follow it to the tee, down to emulations, are the dangerous ones, yet the ones who are being the most "true" to what they read WITHOUT any mental gymnastics to get past the most odious contents. It is no different than good Christian people excusing uncomfortable passages in their holy book by coming up with the "well, THAT was under the law" loophole when necessary, but cherry picking other things to suit their fancy when ready.
The Qur'an was not revealed in a cave. What was revealed to Muhammad in the cave was that he was a Prophet. Nearly every Prophecy came to him while he was in public, speaking to large crowds.
The Qur'an was not revealed in a cave. What was revealed to Muhammad in the cave was that he was a Prophet. Nearly every Prophecy came to him while he was in public, speaking to large crowds.
Well, have me corrected then. I could have sworn, he got some or ALL of his instructions from an angel in a cave (his claim). So, if this is the case, as you say, others heard these prophecies too and confirmed THEY heard what he heard? If so, why was he even necessary? Were they deaf?
Well, have me corrected then. I could have sworn, he got some or ALL of his instructions from an angel in a cave (his claim). So, if this is the case, as you say, others heard these prophecies too and confirmed THEY heard what he heard? If so, why was he even necessary? Were they deaf?
"According to Islam, Muhammad's first revelation was the event in which Muhammad was visited by the archangel Gabriel who revealed to him a verse from the Quran. The event took place in a cave called Hira, located on the mountain called Jabal an-Nour, near Mecca.
According to biographies of Muhammad, while on retreat in a mountain cave near Mecca (the cave of Hira), Gabriel appears before him and commands him to recite the first lines of chapter 96 of the Quran. Muhammad's experience is mentioned in the Quran 53:4-9:
"It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
Then he approached and came closer,
And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;"[Quran 53:4–9]"
The Qur'an was not revealed in a cave. What was revealed to Muhammad in the cave was that he was a Prophet. Nearly every Prophecy came to him while he was in public, speaking to large crowds.
I realize Muhammad was born in Mecca, a place in the ancient world was that literally "a mecca" for trading goods, postulating ideas (religious, or otherwise) and pit stop across the ancient Middle East. From what I recall, Christians (generally those considered heretics by Rome) and Jews used the spot to "preach" their various brands of religious ideas so I am assuming Muhammad took a similar approach once he became convinced he was a prophet? If so, it reminds me of this classic scene from The Life of Brian.
Well, have me corrected then. I could have sworn, he got some or ALL of his instructions from an angel in a cave (his claim). So, if this is the case, as you say, others heard these prophecies too and confirmed THEY heard what he heard? If so, why was he even necessary? Were they deaf?
the only mention of the Cave is in very early Hadith. Yes, many non-Muslims are under the impression Most of the Qur'an was revealed in the cave. However, if one reads the Tadsir of the very early Scholars one can find when and where each of the Surat were revealed. It took 23 years for the Qur'an to be completed and only parts of Surah 2 and 96 were begun in the Cave they were completed later in different locations.
While the Population was not able to hear what Muhammad(saws) was hearing, The people noticed a change come over him and He would begin speaking in the Qur'anic Tajweed, which had never been heard before, instead of his Meccan Dialect of Arabic.
An interesting thing about the Qur'anic Tajweed. No one has ever been able to make a single unique sentence in it, it was never used in conversation and only appears in the Qur'an, yet all Arab speakers of any dialect can understand it. In spite of never had heard it before.
At the time of Muhammad there were at least 7 different Arabic Dialects in use and most people could only understand the dialect specific to their tribe. But they all understood the Qur'anic Arabic which had never been heard until the Qur'an was being revealed.
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