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It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand. If that is the plain claim, then it must be easy to understand to the majority of humans without exceptions.
In which "many verses" did Allah claim that "the Qur'an is easy to understand"?
Let's sort out your claim first before we go on to Allah's claim (whatever it is)!
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Allah is all powerful, thus if Allah claimed it is easy to understand, then Allah should present in such a way the majority can understand it easily.
In which verse Allah claimed so?
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But the reality is not the case because there are confusions in the understanding of the Quran amongst different groups of Muslims, e.g. between the Quran-Only and Quran + Ahadith groups. Within the Quran+Ahadith groups there are also differences between the different sects, Sufi Madhabs and other groups of Sunnis.
Where does Allah say that every Muslim will understand the Qur'an?
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Since the reality is there are confusions amongst the various groups of Muslims, the Quran could have not authored by an all powerful God.
When you begin with false premise, you end up with false conclusion.
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If it was really authored by a powerful God, there would be no confusions.
Therefore the Quran was authored by humans.
I see! If it had been authored by humans, humans would not be confused. Therefore, the Qur'an was authored by God.
The fact of the matter made clear in the Qur'an is that deaf and dumb do not understand (8:22).
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You did not get my point.
I did not blame the infallible.
1. An all powerful infallible God will not author a difficult to interpret book.
2. The Quran is a difficult to interpret book [proven by difference amongst different groups].
3. Therefore the Quran was not authored by God.
Useless argument!
You have to use your own brain to think and interpret the Qur'an. That's why an all powerful God gave you that brain. If you fail, it is your fault.
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This is an example of a very unintelligent point.
Even if one of the 1.5 billion Muslims?
Yes, it was revealed to only one man, who understood it.
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You are really insulting your own intelligence with the above claim.
You are exposing your own lack of understanding of the Qur'an in this thread by saying that Allah claimed in "many verses" that the Qur'an is easy to understand. Quote even half the number of those "many verses" in which Allah claimed, "the Qur'an is easy to understand"!
In which "many verses" did Allah claim that "the Qur'an is easy to understand"?
Let's sort out your claim first before we go on to Allah's claim (whatever it is)!
In which verse Allah claimed so?
Where does Allah say that every Muslim will understand the Qur'an?
When you begin with false premise, you end up with false conclusion.
Have you been dreaming?
Read the OP!
I repeat the OP for you,
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Originally Posted by This OP
Allah in the Quran has stated the Quran was revealed in the Arabic Language so that Muslims who are Arabs can read and understand it easily in their own mother tongue. Here are the various verses that support this point;
42:7. [part] And thus we have inspired in thee [O Muhammad] a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayest warn the mother town and those around it, and mayest warn of a Day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.
46:12. When before it [Quran] there was the Scripture of Moses, an example and a mercy; and [now] this [Quran] is a confirming Scripture in the Arabic language, that it [Quran] may warn those [infidels] who do wrong and bring good tidings for the righteous.
44:58 And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
54:17 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:22 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:32 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:40 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
19:97. And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those [Muslims] who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward [willing contrary] folk [infidels].
14:4. And We [Allah] never sent a messenger save [except] with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.
That is your problem with the discussion, having read the Quran 6-7 times ONLY and you are not paying attention to the main point but rather drift into your own world of illusory beliefs.
I see!
If it had been authored by humans, humans would not be confused.
Therefore, the Qur'an was authored by God.
What kind of argument is that?
If it had been revealed by an all powerful and all knowing God, that God would have the capability to make it easy for the majority of humans to understand.
Allah could have presented it like how we presented our texts to young children.
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The fact of the matter made clear in the Qur'an is that deaf and dumb do not understand (8:22).
That is stupid and not wise.
The intention of any communicator is by default to communicate as clear as possible, regardless of whether the message is useful or not useful, pleasant or not pleasant to the listener or reader.
It is obvious the deaf who cannot listen and dumb intellectual impair will not understand.
The possible fact is this;
1. Muhammad [or a group of people] authored the Quran in very low class writings and claims.
2. When people condemned the illusory claims, they cursed them as deaf and dumb.
3. This is typical of a common childish behavior.
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Useless argument!
Demonstrate it is useless?
I am very familiar with training and education.
It is the onus of any communicator to ensure his/her message and writings are as easy as possible to be understood.
If the Quran is really from a God who is supposed to be all powerful, then that God should have make his message clear to the majority to the lowest grade of readers.
But that is the not the case with the Quran.
Therefore the Quran was not authored by a God.
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You have to use your own brain to think and interpret the Qur'an. That's why an all powerful God gave you that brain. If you fail, it is your fault.
Again your knowledge of human nature in reality is very ignorant.
If you review all humans on Earth, humans has a range of human intellectual capabilities.
You can easily see that in any schools.
There will the 90+% students and there are the always bad student who are always at the bottom the class with 30% and lower.
This prove that God [if God exists] give all humans a brain but each is endow with different brain power from the birth and in life.
If God creates humans with different intellectual capacity, then a all Knowing God should know that and therefore should deliver a holy text that is easy to understand even for the lowest level students.
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Yes, it was revealed to only one man, who understood it.
Which man?
You mean Muhammad?
Note Muhammad was only a Warner, Reminderer, a conveyor, i.e. equivalent to a 'parrot' or 'tape recorder'. That is what the Quran stated. The Quran did not confirm Muhammad understood the message of the Quran 100%.
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You are exposing your own lack of understanding of the Qur'an in this thread by saying that Allah claimed in "many verses" that the Qur'an is easy to understand. Quote even half the number of those "many verses" in which Allah claimed, "the Qur'an is easy to understand"!
If you can't, you are lying about the Qur'an.
"Lying" is a serious accusation.
By doubting my claim, you are exposing your own ignorance of the Quran.
Note I referred you to the OP and as repeated in the earlier post.
Note I have credibility [at least better than you and many others] as I have read the Quran [whole at one go] more than 50 times. I have done that a few times recently and will continue to do so.
The kind of argument you do not have capability to understand!
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If it had been revealed by an all powerful and all knowing God, that God would have the capability to make it easy for the majority of humans to understand.
Allah could have presented it like how we presented our texts to young children.
The text of the Qur'an is not for the little children to understand but for the grown up who should use their brains to ponder over the ayat. Did you expect God to spoon-feed you?
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That is stupid and not wise.
The intention of any communicator is by default to communicate as clear as possible, regardless of whether the message is useful or not useful, pleasant or not pleasant to the listener or reader.
The Qur'an is clear (15:1, 26:2, 27:1, 28:2, 43:2). If anyone like you can't understand it then you are not using your brain properly.
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It is obvious the deaf who cannot listen and dumb intellectual impair will not understand.
Then it is their fault for not understanding the Qur'an. The Qur'an is for those who THINK and UNDERSTAND.
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The possible fact is this;
1. Muhammad [or a group of people] authored the Quran in very low class writings and claims.
2. When people condemned the illusory claims, they cursed them as deaf and dumb.
3. This is typical of a common childish behavior.
It is childish behavior to argue one minute that all powerful od did not make everyone understand the Qur'an and then claim as "possible fact" that Muhammad authored it so poorly that you can't understand it.
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I am very familiar with training and education.
It is the onus of any communicator to ensure his/her message and writings are as easy as possible to be understood.
If it wasn't easy, not one will understand it. If even some understood it then it was easy to understand it except for the dumb, deaf and blind.
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If the Quran is really from a God who is supposed to be all powerful, then that God should have make his message clear to the majority to the lowest grade of readers.
He has! That is how so many have understood it for 1400 years.
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But that is the not the case with the Quran.
Therefore the Quran was not authored by a God.
It is the case because only the dumb ones won't understand it because they won't try hard enough to understand it.
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Again your knowledge of human nature in reality is very ignorant.
It is your knowledge of human nature that makes you think that the Qur'an wasn't made easy to understand. Your focus is only on the Qur'an and not on the human nature. The Qur'an is clear that the dumb and deaf will not understand.
So if you can't understand the Qur'an, wwe know why. And if you do understand the Qur'an then it is from God and easy to understand. Make up your mind as to which is true!
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Which man?
You mean Muhammad?
Note Muhammad was only a Warner, Reminderer, a conveyor, i.e. equivalent to a 'parrot' or 'tape recorder'. That is what the Quran stated. The Quran did not confirm Muhammad understood the message of the Quran 100%.
The Qur'an does say that it is for those with understanding (can think).If Muhammad did not understand it then he could not think what he did not understand. That can lead to only another proof that the author was not Muhammad as author does understand what he authors. The more excuses you think of the more you expose yourself as being ignorant about who authored the Qur'an.
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"Lying" is a serious accusation.
By doubting my claim, you are exposing your own ignorance of the Quran.
I have accused you of lying about the Qur'an. Onus is upon you now to prove me wrong.
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Note I referred you to the OP and as repeated in the earlier post.
Note I have credibility [at least better than you and many others] as I have read the Quran [whole at one go] more than 50 times. I have done that a few times recently and will continue to do so.
Quote the verses that back up your claim! I know what you claimed. I am taking you on this time.
The kind of argument you do not have capability to understand!
When your argument is gibberish, there is nothing for me or any one to understand.
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The text of the Qur'an is not for the little children to understand but for the grown up who should use their brains to ponder over the ayat. Did you expect God to spoon-feed you?
It is not a question of 'spoon feeding' on the topic of communication.
Are you familiar with the common saying 'KISS' Keep it Simple & Short or Keep it Simple, Stupid?
Therefore to make it easy to understand the message need to presented in such a way that even little children and understand. Obviously this is not to be taken literally but the point is to indicate that communication must be made as simple as possible.
In another aspect, there is the standard of Poka-Yoke or idiot-proof, this refers to operations where the standard is so refine that even an idiot will not make a mistake.
It is a default of any communicator [including God] to make it easy for the reader to understand.
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The Qur'an is clear (15:1, 26:2, 27:1, 28:2, 43:2). If anyone like you can't understand it then you are not using your brain properly.
I did not claim I cannot understand.
The point here is (15:1, 26:2, 27:1, 28:2, 43:2) assert the Quran is plain, i.e. simple and easy to understand but yet there are so much contentious issues within the Islamic community.
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Then it is their fault for not understanding the Qur'an. The Qur'an is for those who THINK and UNDERSTAND.
Note the purpose of Allah creating humans is so that humans SHOULD serve Allah.
If Allah create humans who cannot understand his words, how can they then serve Allah.
This is obviously a contradiction.
I don't believe this contradiction in the Quran is by God.
The existence of such contradiction imply that the Quran was authored by fallible humans.
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It is childish behavior to argue one minute that all powerful God did not make everyone understand the Qur'an and then claim as "possible fact" that Muhammad authored it so poorly that you can't understand it.
You don't seem to understand my argument and confusing the issue.
Logically:
1. I claim an all powerful did not author the Quran
because if the Quran was really authored by God,
then every one should understand the Quran reasonably without the present existing contentious issues.
2. Because the Quran cannot be authored by an all powerful God as explained above, then it can only be authored by humans, which in this case was Muhammad or a group of people.
Because the Quran was authored by Muhammad [has low intellectual competence], the Quran it a low quality religious books which contain lots of confusions, ambiguities, etc. that created contentions issues between different groups of Muslims.
3. I did not state I do not understand. I understand the Quran and its whole shebang BUT I do not agree with what [the contents and confusions] I understood of the Quran. In addition I understand the underlying factors of the Quran, i.e. it was not authored by a God but rather by Muhammad or a group of people.
If it wasn't easy, not one will understand it. If even some understood it then it was easy to understand it except for the dumb, deaf and blind.
Earlier you stated even it ONE understand it, then it is Easy. Now you change to say 'some'.
What quantity is your some?
In the case of religious texts, they come is different degrees of easiness and difficulties of understanding.
Obviously there are easy things in the Quran that are easy to understand by all, e.g. the 5 pillars of Islam, what is so difficult about that.
My contention of 'easy' re the Quran is referring to 90% of its contents and message. [10% could be very complex issues only the very experts will understand] Therefore the 90% of contents of the Quran must be reasonably easy for the majority of Muslims to understand.
Now the reality is the 90% of contents in the Quran are vulnerable to contentious issues between different groups of Muslims.
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He has! That is how so many have understood it for 1400 years.
Many has only understood the very basic say 10%, analogically like those 1+1=2 stuffs.
But the major of the contents of the Quran, i.e. 11%-89% posed difficulties and those created contentious issues between different groups of Muslims.
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It is the case because only the dumb ones won't understand it because they won't try hard enough to understand it.
A teacher should not blame the students are dumb.
If the students failed to learn effectively, the teacher should take the blame for not knowing and using effective teaching techniques that are suitable to the learning styles [ability] of the respective students.
One cannot use the same teaching techniques to teach fast and slow learners.
If you and your family are in the education fields, they should know that.
Therefore if the Quran was authored by an all powerful God, this God would have catered for all levels of believers and not condemned deaf, blind, dumb Muslims and non-believers to hell for not accepting his message.
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It is your knowledge of human nature that makes you think that the Qur'an wasn't made easy to understand. Your focus is only on the Qur'an and not on the human nature. The Qur'an is clear that the dumb and deaf will not understand.
You want to be a zombie who is not human?
If you are a human being, you have not choice but to understand human nature.
This is why Socrates' "Know Thyself" is so critical for humanity.
Because all Muslims are imperatively human beings, they have to reconcile the Quran with humans and human nature.
This is why I focus so much on human nature to stick to reality and not be in fantasy world of made-beliefs.
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So if you can't understand the Qur'an, we know why. And if you do understand the Qur'an then it is from God and easy to understand. Make up your mind as to which is true!
Note I mentioned above. I fully understand the Quran and its circumstances within humanity, but I DO NOT agree with the critical message of the Quran.
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The Qur'an does say that it is for those with understanding (can think).If Muhammad did not understand it then he could not think what he did not understand. That can lead to only another proof that the author was not Muhammad as author does understand what he authors. The more excuses you think of the more you expose yourself as being ignorant about who authored the Qur'an.
Note the Quran claimed the Quran is supposed to be plain in one's own language, easy to understand, easy to remember. It is ONLY the il-ilbabi who understand and take heed. Therefore the Quran expect the majority to understand 90% of Quran easily but acknowledge some will take heed.
But the reality is, the majority of Muslims do not have sufficient understanding of the Quran and this why there is so much contentious issues between different groups of Muslims that end up Muslims killing each other. IF the Quran was authored by an all powerful all knowing God, that God would not have authored a text that influenced Muslims of different groups to kill each other and worst of all, committing all sorts of terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims.
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I have accused you of lying about the Qur'an. Onus is upon you now to prove me wrong.
Quote the verses that back up your claim! I know what you claimed. I am taking you on this time.
The onus is for you to prove I am lying?
So far you have not done so.
When your argument is gibberish, there is nothing for me or any one to understand.
That's just an excuse when you can't understand the Qur'an. You proved this point by starting this thread and claimed that "many verses" of the Qur'an say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Clearly, you do not understand even the English translations of the Qur'an because there isn't even one verse in the Qur'an that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Quote your "many verses" that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand" or admit that you lied about the Qur'an.
An apology would be in order for lying about the Qur'an o0r else I am not going to let you off the hook in this thread.
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It is not a question of 'spoon feeding' on the topic of communication.
Are you familiar with the common saying 'KISS' Keep it Simple & Short or Keep it Simple, Stupid?
Therefore to make it easy to understand the message need to presented in such a way that even little children and understand. Obviously this is not to be taken literally but the point is to indicate that communication must be made as simple as possible.
In primary school books, it is like spoon-feeding little children so that they can understand them. In the next edition, it is appropriate for older children. At college, the books are nothing like primary school books. At PHD level, there is no spoon-feeding. You have to use your brain and previous learning or else go back to primary school.
We have had Old Testament.
We have had New Testament.
The Qur'an is the Last Testament.
Is it too advanced for you to understand?
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It is a default of any communicator [including God] to make it easy for the reader to understand.
At Degree level or PHD level, the communicator is not going to spoon-feed you but guide you on to a path only. You then have to do the walking. If you can't walk, don't blame the Guide.
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I did not claim I cannot understand.
In that case, you have no argument. If you can understand the Qur'an then it must be easy to understand. You are proving yourself wrong here. Either that or you have to admit that you can't understand the Qur'an because it is not easy to understand.
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The point here is (15:1, 26:2, 27:1, 28:2, 43:2) assert the Quran is plain, i.e. simple and easy to understand but yet there are so much contentious issues within the Islamic community.
The verses say that the Qur'an makes things clear. None of these verses say, "the Qur'an is simple and easy to understand". Clearly, you are unable to understand the Qur'an even when translated in English.
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Note the purpose of Allah creating humans is so that humans SHOULD serve Allah.
If Allah create humans who cannot understand his words, how can they then serve Allah.
This is obviously a contradiction.
I don't believe this contradiction in the Quran is by God.
The existence of such contradiction imply that the Quran was authored by fallible humans.
Billions have served Allah. They understood His words. That means, His words are easy to understand by those who try to understand them.
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You don't seem to understand my argument and confusing the issue.
No. You have confused yourself by claiming that you have read the Qur'an 50+ times and understand it, and then claim here that the Qur'an is not easy to understand. You contradict yourself!
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Logically:
1. I claim an all powerful did not author the Quran
because if the Quran was really authored by God,
then every one should understand the Quran reasonably without the present existing contentious issues.
So even if an idiot can't understand the Qur'an, it is not easy to understand??? Is that your perceived brilliant argument here?
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2. Because the Quran cannot be authored by an all powerful God as explained above, then it can only be authored by humans, which in this case was Muhammad or a group of people.
Because the Quran was authored by Muhammad [has low intellectual competence], the Quran it a low quality religious books which contain lots of confusions, ambiguities, etc. that created contentions issues between different groups of Muslims.
The people with low intellectual quality are those who make false claims about the Qur'an such as it says in "many verses" that "the Qur'an is easy to understand" but then, when challenged, can't quote even one verse that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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3. I did not state I do not understand. I understand the Quran and its whole shebang BUT I do not agree with what [the contents and confusions] I understood of the Quran. In addition I understand the underlying factors of the Quran, i.e. it was not authored by a God but rather by Muhammad or a group of people.
If you do understand the Qur'an, as you now claim here, you must admit that the Qur'an is easy to understand. Therefore, you have killed your own argument of this thread. R.I.P.
That's just an excuse when you can't understand the Qur'an. You proved this point by starting this thread and claimed that "many verses" of the Qur'an say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Clearly, you do not understand even the English translations of the Qur'an because there isn't even one verse in the Qur'an that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Quote your "many verses" that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand" or admit that you lied about the Qur'an.
An apology would be in order for lying about the Qur'an o0r else I am not going to let you off the hook in this thread.
Apology? My foot!
If you take the whole context of the Quran, the Quran do claim within a set of verses, the Quran is supposed to be easy to understand as supported by various verses that convey the following;
1. Quran easy to remember as recited in one's own language
2. Allah made clear the message 14:4
3. The Quran is plain
4. and others.
The above elements imply the Quran is supposed to be easy to understand.
But in reality the Quran contradict itself because in reality it is not the case that the majority understand the majority of the content of the Quran.
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In primary school books, it is like spoon-feeding little children so that they can understand them. In the next edition, it is appropriate for older children. At college, the books are nothing like primary school books. At PHD level, there is no spoon-feeding. You have to use your brain and previous learning or else go back to primary school.
We have had Old Testament.
We have had New Testament.
The Qur'an is the Last Testament.
Is it too advanced for you to understand?
You are not following the trend of advancing education for example where there are attempts to make text books easy to understand for as many people as possible by using various advance techniques. Slow learners are given different attention in comparison to fasts learners. This is not spoon feeding by facilitating students to think and learn rather than having information forced down their throats.
At PhD level, one is not supposed to learn from another source but create new knowledge for others to learn and benefit from. Therefore at the PhD level there will be a difference from the lower levels. However even at the PhD level, the research and preparation of one's thesis is made easier with different research tools, statistical techniques, analytical tools, various other tools, etc.
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At Degree level or PHD level, the communicator is not going to spoon-feed you but guide you on to a path only. You then have to do the walking. If you can't walk, don't blame the Guide.
Note my point above re PhD.
There is no question of spoon feeding at any level but a student to be facilitated to make learning easier.
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In that case, you have no argument. If you can understand the Qur'an then it must be easy to understand. You are proving yourself wrong here. Either that or you have to admit that you can't understand the Qur'an because it is not easy to understand.
Point is I am the 10% minority and exception where I have put in extra ordinary efforts on my own where I can understand the full complexity and mess of the Quran plus the underlying human nature.
In this case it not that I can understand the Quran because it is easy, rather it because I understand human nature that I can understand the Quran and its circumstances easily. Note the big difference.
My accusation is the Quran [the major part] as claimed is supposed to easy for the majority of Muslims but it is not the case in reality. Therefore the Quran cannot be authored by an all-powerful & all-knowing God.
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The verses say that the Qur'an makes things clear. None of these verses say, "the Qur'an is simple and easy to understand". Clearly, you are unable to understand the Qur'an even when translated in English.
Note my points above, i.e.
The following elements in the various verses of the Quran,
1. Quran easy to remember as recited in one's own language
2. Allah made clear the message 14:4
3. The Quran is plain
4. and others.
support the point that the Quran is claimed to be easy to "understand".
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Billions have served Allah. They understood His words. That means, His words are easy to understand by those who try to understand them.
[A] As I said, the majority can understand the basic requirements, e.g. the 5 pillars of Islam but that is not within our contention.
What I have contended is the major portion of the Quran [90%] of it cannot be easily understood by the majority 90% of Muslims. This fact contradict the claim of the Quran as per that set of verses that support the claim the Quran is easy.
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No. You have confused yourself by claiming that you have read the Qur'an 50+ times and understand it, and then claim here that the Qur'an is not easy to understand. You contradict yourself!
You are mixing and blending to present confusions.
Personally I find the Quran is a low quality holy texts which is not well organized like other good ones and overall it is messy. However I did not claim I cannot overcome these difficulties.
What I claimed as stated many time is;
What I have contended is the major portion of the Quran [90%] of it cannot be easily understood by the majority 90% of Muslims. This fact contradict the claim of the Quran as per that set of verses that support the claim the Quran is easy.
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So even if an idiot can't understand the Qur'an, it is not easy to understand??? Is that your perceived brilliant argument here?
That is not my point. Note I mentioned 'idiot' refer to operations and actions not specific to reading of texts.
IF I am God, I would author and write [conveyed] the Quran in a way even the lowest grade of readers [amongst the majority] will understand it easily.
I will write the Quran in simple sentences, provides lots of examples, analogies, parables, etc. and whatever that is necessary to reduce ambiguities.
To ensure quality, I will not choose an illiterate person to be a prophet for my message but I will choose a person who is qualified to my expectation to write and communicate effectively. That person should have high spiritual intelligence, is a pacifist and not be overly concern with fighting, wars, loots, women, slaves, and other distracting evil elements.
To ensure it is idiot-proofs, I will command all readers to get an expert to ensure the reader has at least basic literacy standards. Those who failed basic literacy and comprehension test will have to get assistance to understand the Quran from experts and counsellors.
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The people with low intellectual quality are those who make false claims about the Qur'an such as it says in "many verses" that "the Qur'an is easy to understand" but then, when challenged, can't quote even one verse that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
You are kicking your own back here as objectively any one can assess my intellectual quality based on the posts I have written which I believed is of above average quality [don't claim to be a super expert].
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If you do understand the Qur'an, as you now claim here, you must admit that the Qur'an is easy to understand. Therefore, you have killed your own argument of this thread. R.I.P.
You jumped to conclusion too fast without proper understanding.
Note my argument above [A] to counter your point.
Last edited by Continuum; 05-20-2016 at 02:37 AM..
Apology? My foot!
If you take the whole context of the Quran, the Quran do claim within a set of verses, the Quran is supposed to be easy to understand as supported by various verses that convey the following;
1. Quran easy to remember as recited in one's own language
2. Allah made clear the message 14:4
3. The Quran is plain
4. and others.
The above elements imply the Quran is supposed to be easy to understand.
That wasn't your claim that, as you see it, the "various verses" IMPLIES but that "many verses" say that "the Qur'an is easy to understand". That was a lie, and you know it. No verse says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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But in reality the Quran contradict itself because in reality it is not the case that the majority understand the majority of the content of the Quran.
Your claim was that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". There isn't even one verse in the Qur'an that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". That's the topic of the thread and I am going to drag you back at it each time you try to divert the discussion to a different topic. If some people can't understand the Qur'an and others can, it does not mean that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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In this case it not that I can understand the Quran because it is easy, rather it because I understand human nature that I can understand the Quran and its circumstances easily. Note the big difference.
Try not to be too clever! It is either easy to understand and you understand it or it is not easy to understand and you do not understand it.
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My accusation is the Quran [the major part] as claimed is supposed to easy for the majority of Muslims but it is not the case in reality. Therefore the Quran cannot be authored by an all-powerful & all-knowing God.
No. Your accusation was that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Your accusation is ignorance; no verse of the Qur'an says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Try not to divert the topic. I want you to quote those "many verses" that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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Note my points above, i.e.
The following elements in the various verses of the Quran,
1. Quran easy to remember as recited in one's own language
2. Allah made clear the message 14:4
3. The Quran is plain
4. and others.
support the point that the Quran is claimed to be easy to "understand".
That is YOUR different point now, not the original claim "many verses" say "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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[A] As I said, the majority can understand the basic requirements, e.g. the 5 pillars of Islam but that is not within our contention.
What I have contended is the major portion of the Quran [90%] of it cannot be easily understood by the majority 90% of Muslims. This fact contradict the claim of the Quran as per that set of verses that support the claim the Quran is easy.
Your honesty is in tatters. No verse says that the Qur'an is easy to understand. You were not honest in your original claim as no verse of the Qur'an says that the Qur'an is easy to understand.
When you make false claims about the Book of Allah, you end up in this situation; unable to quote any verse that says that "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
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You are mixing and blending to present confusions.
Personally I find the Quran is a low quality holy texts which is not well organized like other good ones and overall it is messy. However I did not claim I cannot overcome these difficulties.
So you know what you are doing now, mixing and blending, creating confusion to take the focus off your claim, "many verses" say that the Qur'an is easy to understand. As I said, I am not going to let you off the hook no matter how much you wriggle and try to get away to another issue. Quote the "many verses" if you are truthful about the Qur'an!
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I will write the Quran in simple sentences, provides lots of examples, analogies, parables, etc. and whatever that is necessary to reduce ambiguities.
I am not asking you to do that but to quote the "many verses" you claimed that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
That wasn't your claim that, as you see it, the "various verses" IMPLIES but that "many verses" say that "the Qur'an is easy to understand". That was a lie, and you know it. No verse says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
You can create whatever straw man you want.
Note the purpose of the OP is this:
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Originally Posted by OP
Allah in the Quran has stated the Quran was revealed in the Arabic Language so that Muslims who are Arabs can read and understand it easily in their own mother tongue.
Here are the various verses that support this point;
I provided some verses and mentioned there are many more.
What lie are you talking about?
What I have provided is my view on the overall context of the Quran based on the many times I have read the Quran.
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Your claim was that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". There isn't even one verse in the Qur'an that says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". That's the topic of the thread and I am going to drag you back at it each time you try to divert the discussion to a different topic. If some people can't understand the Qur'an and others can, it does not mean that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
What I meant was the within the whole of the Quran there are many verses when read together generate the point that the "Quran is easy to understand". This is very obvious because my OP refer to 'easy to understand' but I did not provide any 'direct verse' that stated 'the Quran is easy to understand'.
I did not claim there is a sentence in the Quran that stated 'The Quran is easy to understand'.
The problem is your level of comprehension in this case.
Example.
Now if you read a whole set of statements that refer to kindergarten stuffs.
Obviously it is implied these stuffs are "easy to understand" for the ordinary person.
There is no need to state the obvious that it is easy to understand.
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Try not to be too clever! It is either easy to understand and you understand it or it is not easy to understand and you do not understand it.
What I am stating is a fact and why can't you accept a fact.
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No. Your accusation was that "many verses" say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Your accusation is ignorance; no verse of the Qur'an says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand". Try not to divert the topic. I want you to quote those "many verses" that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
I suggest you read the opening statement of my OP again. I did not state there are many verses that contain the words 'the Quran is easy to understand'. I stated there are many verses [in different expressions] that support my point "the Quran is easy to understand" as implied by the Quran.
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That is YOUR different point now, not the original claim "many verses" say "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Read my OP again.
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Your honesty is in tatters. No verse says that the Qur'an is easy to understand. You were not honest in your original claim as no verse of the Qur'an says that the Qur'an is easy to understand.
Read the OP again.
It is obvious from the OP 'Quran in Own Language, So Easy to Understand?' is supported by various statement in different forms.
IF my OP is say 'The Quran state the Quran is easy to understand' then I would be wrong because the verses I provided in the OP did not support the title. If this is a case, this is not a lie but merely a badly presented OP. But this is not the case with this OP.
This OP is correct as presented as supported by the contents of the OP.
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When you make false claims about the Book of Allah, you end up in this situation; unable to quote any verse that says that "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Read my OP again. It is not a false claim.
The whole thing about the book is problematic where what it stated do not match reality.
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So you know what you are doing now, mixing and blending, creating confusion to take the focus off your claim, "many verses" say that the Qur'an is easy to understand. As I said, I am not going to let you off the hook no matter how much you wriggle and try to get away to another issue. Quote the "many verses" if you are truthful about the Qur'an!
I should not let you off the hook with your misunderstanding my OP and arrogantly insisting you are smart.
Since my OP is correct, what is there to wriggle. Looks like you are the one who need to wriggle your way out of your over enthusiastic oversight.
The fact your whole belief is grounded on an illusion and falsehoods, that is why you will always face problems in trying to be logical and rational. You have no choice but to bend and compromise the truth to match your existing false beliefs.
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I am not asking you to do that but to quote the "many verses" you claimed that say, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Your claim is off topic.
Read my OP again.
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